• topics.. let's hear your ideas.

    From August Abolins@2:221/360 to All on Wednesday, April 03, 2019 04:12:46
    Hello Everyone!

    The "original" echo introduction circa 2005 seems appropriate to duplicate:

    Area : FUTURE4FIDO
    Description : Discussion of new Fido technologies and developments
    Language : English
    Topics:

    - Discussion and development of future-oriented mechanisms to advance
    means of access for new FidoNet participants, and of ideas on further
    development of FTN technology and FidoNet in general.

    - Discussion and problem solving in critical FidoNet areas, for example
    how to keep FidoNet attractive. What can we do as individuals or as a
    group, what ideas exist and what can be implemented?


    There seems to be consensus (from my modest gleening and lurking in a few of the other echos) that Fidonet needs "better software" and "better ways to reach

    new people". Those are among the same concerns that originally spawned this echo nearly 20 years ago.

    Let's hear your ideas!

    Over the years, Fidonet has embraced tcp/ip|Binkp over POTS in a big way. Programs have been developed or modified to be supported in newer operating systems. Websites have been spawned to create wonderful directories of telnet BBSes with direct login.

    What more can be done? What more needs to be done?

    Both of these provide wonderful summaries of the past:

    https://bbs.fandom.com/wiki/FidoNet

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet

    ...but who is going to write about the future vision for fidonet? Where does fidonet go from here?


    .../|ug

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to August Abolins on Wednesday, April 03, 2019 19:01:30
    Hello, August!

    Wednesday April 03 2019 04:12, from August Abolins -> All:

    There seems to be consensus (from my modest gleening and lurking in a
    few of the other echos) that Fidonet needs "better software" and
    "better ways to reach new people".

    The whole world has moved from desktops and laptops towards mobile gadgets
    for most of the daily tasks including reading news and all those online social network activities. IMHO the first priority in attracting new people to the
    net would be to have user friendly apps for iOS and Android plus the way to synchronize across multiple devices. It would not be convenient to have separate point addresses for your desktop/iPad/phone and you should be able to seamlessly move across them, say start reading on your iPad and pick up where you left on your phone on your commute to work, once you are at your desk it would be nice to open up a desktop/laptop browser version of the Fidonet
    reader to continue on a bigger screen. UTF-8 support which adds all those
    emoji and the possibility to mix different languages in one message would be pretty much standard thing to expect from todays app. Here and there we can
    see people are trying to embed some multimedia content. There are a few
    options like posting an URL in the text with or without framing, insert an uuencode file or having a fileecho as a carrier. This would be the bare
    minimum to start with to reach out for new members (or bring back -exs).

    Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Nil Alexandrov on Wednesday, April 03, 2019 19:15:00
    Hello Nil!

    ** 03.04.19 - 19:01, Nil Alexandrov wrote to August Abolins:

    The whole world has moved from desktops and laptops towards mobile
    gadgets for most of the daily tasks including reading news and all those online social network activities. IMHO the first priority in attracting
    new people to the net would be to have user friendly apps for iOS and
    Android plus the way to synchronize across multiple devices.

    I've heard of something called Aftershock (see Google Play Store). I've
    seen its use by several people in these echos. Also, there is the fidonet echo AFTERSHOCK specifically about it. I've seen some recent postings in there.


    It would not be convenient to have separate point addresses for your desktop/iPad/phone and you should be able to seamlessly move across
    them, say start reading on your iPad and pick up where you left on your phone on your commute to work, once you are at
    your desk it would be nice to open up a desktop/laptop browser version of
    the Fidonet reader to continue on a bigger screen.

    Personnally, I don't see the practicality of this communication on small smartphone screens. I considered trying Aftershock on my Blackberry Z10 but then backed off. Typing messages on that thing would be nuts.

    You make a contradiction. First you mention that "the world has moved
    away from desktops and laptops", but then you want features to sync
    fidonet to a laptop/desktop. I believe that laptops/desktops (ie devices with larger screens) will still have usefulness.

    The syncing part sounds interesting. Maybe you could achieve a modest solution with a point installation on a portable thumbdrive?


    UTF-8 support which adds
    all those emoji and the possibility to mix different languages in one
    message would be pretty much standard thing to expect from todays app.

    ..or those things are so distinctive to the internet and the forum-style
    of posts that they are better to run away from? ;)


    Here and there we can see people are trying to embed some multimedia
    content. There are a few options like posting an URL in the text with
    or without framing, insert an uuencode file or having a fileecho as a carrier. This would be the bare minimum to start with to reach out for
    new members (or bring back -exs).

    I am not sure what to say about that. Anyone else want to jump in?
    Fidonet does have a large file exchange network already in place. It may
    not be wise to expect file attachments in public messages that are
    duplicated across multiple systems. A link to a file in cloud storage
    would be more practicle.

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to August Abolins on Thursday, April 04, 2019 03:39:34
    Hello, August!

    Wednesday April 03 2019 19:15, from August Abolins -> Nil Alexandrov:

    I've heard of something called Aftershock (see Google Play Store).
    I've seen its use by several people in these echos. Also, there is
    the fidonet echo AFTERSHOCK specifically about it. I've seen some
    recent postings in there.

    Aftershock is the Android only app and is not free. HotdogEd on the other
    hand has more features and is totally free for FTN usage (there is a paid
    NNTP module). That being said, none of these apps are available for iOS means iPhone and iPad. Also, I would like to stress out that both of them are
    written by tech folks, software engineers with no dedicated UI design person
    on the team. It makes the app way less approachable to just regular users and not geeks.

    Personnally, I don't see the practicality of this communication on
    small smartphone screens. I considered trying Aftershock on my Blackberry Z10 but then backed off. Typing messages on that thing
    would be nuts.

    It's hard to find a smartphone with the screen size smaller than 5" and ne models are above 6". iPads and tablets are used for comfortable web surfing
    and definitely exceed the typical Fidonet 80x25 textmode messages browsing.

    You make a contradiction. First you mention that "the world has moved
    away from desktops and laptops", but then you want features to sync fidonet to a laptop/desktop. I believe that laptops/desktops (ie
    devices with larger screens) will still have usefulness.

    My point is that phones and tables are mostly used for personal mail reading, Internet surfing and video on demand watching (youtube, Netflix, Amazon prime, etc.). It's what in your pocket and is always available when you have some spare time or during commute. Desktops and mostly laptops are what people use at work and also to browse news and stuff around lunchtime. Here I'm listing the real use cases when you might take a minute or more to check your fido echomail.

    The syncing part sounds interesting. Maybe you could achieve a modest
    solution with a point installation on a portable thumbdrive?

    The synchronization feature was actually asked by many users here in R50 but the design is stil an open question.

    ..or those things are so distinctive to the internet and the
    forum-style of posts that they are better to run away from? ;)

    Unicode and what comes with it is not the WEB 2.0 or Internet forums peculiars but the real necessity for text copy & paste from other sources. I can hardly every post my text from an external editor which brings all these ',",-

    Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Nil Alexandrov on Thursday, April 04, 2019 06:14:30
    Hello, Nil Alexandrov
    On 04/04/2019 00:39 you wrote:

    From Nil Alexandrov To August Abolins
    Hello, August!
    Wednesday April 03 2019 19:15, from August Abolins -> Nil Alexandrov:
    I've heard of something called Aftershock (see Google Play Store).
    I've seen its use by several people in these echos. Also, there is
    the fidonet echo AFTERSHOCK specifically about it. I've seen some recent postings in there.
    Aftershock is the Android only app and is not free. HotdogEd on the other hand has more features and is totally free for FTN usage (there is a paid NNTP module). That being said, none of these apps are available for iOS
    means
    iPhone and iPad. Also, I would like to stress out that both of them are written by tech folks, software engineers with no dedicated UI design person on the team. It makes the app way less approachable to just regular users
    and
    not geeks.

    Hotdoged nntp provider is freely available at the authors website.

    --
    Tommi

    --- HotdogEd/2.13.5 (Android; Google Android; rv:1) Hotdoged/1480338873000 Hotd
    * Origin: smapinntpd/linux @ nntps://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Nil Alexandrov on Wednesday, April 03, 2019 23:24:00
    Hello Nil!

    ** 03.04.19 - 19:01, Nil Alexandrov wrote to August Abolins:

    .. UTF-8 support which adds all those emoji and the
    possibility to mix different languages in one message would be pretty much standard thing to expect from todays app.

    For me, the unicode vs utf-8 and char sets is complicated. Isn't there a backward compatibility issue in force with fidonet?


    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Nil Alexandrov on Wednesday, April 03, 2019 23:55:00
    Hello Nil!


    ...There are a few options like posting an URL in the text with or
    without framing, insert an uuencode file or having a fileecho as a carrier. This would be the bare minimum to start with to reach out for
    new members (or bring back -exs).

    Some of the readers out there already support URL in text. OpenXP
    apparently has the feature (although I am having a little issue to make it cooperate for me as I am still a noob with this program). :( The newsreader method via Windows programs supports URLs in text quite nicely too.

    But I primarily just quoted your last few lines because you expressed the matter of how to "reach out for new members (or bring back -exs)." A new program, especially iOS support, might impress some people (and they tell
    two friends, and they tell two friends, and so on) ..but the one important matter is to generate the awareness of fidonet, that it is not (yet) a
    dead dog. <g> And then, get people discover what it is, why it exists,
    how it works and *how* to get onboard with at least the current fair of progs.

    There has been a recent 2nd wind to revisit the condition of the
    fidonet.org site - and fix it.

    From the perspective of messaging (echomail), how can people be convinced that the fidonet network is even worthwhile?

    Awareness of places like:

    [1] https://fidonet.ozzmosis.com/ , and
    [2] http://sestar.synchro.net/msgs/subs.ssjs?msg_grp=Fidonet

    ..can help advertise potential discussion areas.

    Sadly, [1] above seems to be running on auto-pilot and some of the echos
    are not getting any updates. [2] is useful because it gives a nice indication of the "Latest" post in any echo at one glance.

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tommi Koivula on Thursday, April 04, 2019 07:19:40
    In a post between "Tommi Koivula : Nil Alexandrov", on 4/3/2019 11:14 PM

    Hello Tommi!

    From Nil Alexandrov:

    Aftershock is the Android only app and is not free. HotdogEd on the
    other hand has more features and is totally free for FTN usage (there
    is a paid NNTP module). That being said, none of these apps are
    available for iOS means iPhone and iPad. Also, I would like to stress
    out that both of them are written by tech folks, software engineers
    with no dedicated UI design person on the team. It makes the app way
    less approachable to just regular users and not geeks.

    Hotdoged nntp provider is freely available at the authors website.
    -+- HotdogEd/2.13.5 (Android; Google Android; rv:1) Hotdoged

    I vote that his "Кьяра" should be the "real" Fido:

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XrBoPvbvyHTLcANTX0cpEjaHJn8EN9CQ71Yvcd2LPPNyFcZb-8TYFJIb3j2qNUtZSoaRNvfr9W7zOG7yEmA=w488-h275

    http://tinyurl.com/y3j5zm68

    Source album = http://tinyurl.com/y4bsnrz2

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Nil Alexandrov on Thursday, April 04, 2019 00:46:06
    On 04-03-19 19:01, Nil Alexandrov <=-
    spoke to August Abolins about topics.. let's hear your <=-

    The whole world has moved from desktops and laptops towards mobile
    gadgets for most of the daily tasks including reading news and all
    those online social network activities. IMHO the first priority in

    Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like me.
    I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets
    using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change. I
    don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used to make voice
    calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling home to check on
    an item on the grocery list. It costs me about US$5.00 per month.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 00:51:44, 04 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Nil Alexandrov on Thursday, April 04, 2019 01:45:00
    Hello Nil!

    Aftershock is the Android only app and is not free. HotdogEd on the
    other hand has more features and is totally free for FTN usage (there
    is a paid NNTP module). That being said, none of these apps are
    available for iOS means iPhone and iPad.

    Regarding Aftershock, can you blame a resourceful programmer to fetch "something" for the effort? <g> People have the choice to vote with
    their wallet.

    Regarding HotdogEd, how long has it been out? The author's site only
    seems to document version 2.12 from 2016 as the earliest.

    2 progs are certainly better than none at this juncture. ;) Doesn't
    android have a bigger demographic/userbase than iOS?

    Regarding no apps available for iOS, maybe development for that is more complicated? Maybe the right person needs to have the time and the fire
    to tackle the project.


    Also, I would like to stress
    out that both of them are written by tech folks, software engineers
    with no dedicated UI design person on the team. It makes the app way
    less approachable to just regular users and not geeks.

    Ya.. right out of the gate, programs/apps can be quite "ordinary". In
    time and with user input, the UI can be improved.

    The HotdogEd author seems to do a very faithful job in providing the documentation and installation steps. A community of users can help each other too.


    Personnally, I don't see the practicality of this communication on
    small smartphone screens. I considered trying Aftershock on my
    Blackberry Z10 but then backed off. Typing messages on that thing
    would be nuts.

    It's hard to find a smartphone with the screen size smaller than 5" and ne models are above 6". iPads and tablets are used for comfortable web
    surfing and definitely exceed the typical Fidonet 80x25 textmode messages browsing.

    Noted! The trend *has* been larger screens for the handheld devices. I tried a simple newsgroup reader on my iPod several years ago and wondered "how is this even practical?" The iPod 2nd, 3rd and even 4th Gen screen
    is way too small for frequent message editing. But.. the tablets (even
    with external keyboards) can be quite workable.


    The syncing part sounds interesting. Maybe you could achieve a modest AA>> solution with a point installation on a portable thumbdrive?

    The synchronization feature was actually asked by many users here in R50 but the design is an open question.

    Sync seems to be promoted heavily in other applications like Mozilla (bookmarks, history, tabs, passwords) across all of the devices you might use. I wouldn't be surprised if a sync solution for fidonet emerged out
    of the resourceful folks in R50 or its neighbors.

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to August Abolins on Thursday, April 04, 2019 18:43:48
    Hello, August!

    Wednesday April 03 2019 23:24, from August Abolins -> Nil Alexandrov:

    For me, the unicode vs utf-8 and char sets is complicated. Isn't
    there a backward compatibility issue in force with fidonet?

    http://utf8everywhere.org

    The fact that you don't care about charsets and encodings is that all software developers just started using Unicode/utf8 everywhere since about 2000.

    Also, as an English native speaker you don't read non-Latin alphabet text, except those fancy accents present in French which is well supported within 8-bit encoding. The rest of the world was suffering from multiple encodings until the Unicode standard took place.

    Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to August Abolins on Thursday, April 04, 2019 18:53:56
    Hello, August!

    Wednesday April 03 2019 23:55, from August Abolins -> Nil Alexandrov:

    Some of the readers out there already support URL in text. OpenXP apparently has the feature (although I am having a little issue to
    make it cooperate for me as I am still a noob with this program). :(
    The newsreader method via Windows programs supports URLs in text
    quite nicely too.

    It is not documented what the reader software should do with the URLs.
    Well, hopefully they can recognize them as URLs at least and make them clickable to open up in your default web browser.

    There was also an afford to standardize the "Fidonet Global Hypertext Interface" (FGHI) URL scheme like area://, netmail:, areafix:, etc. and
    some readers has limited support.

    But I primarily just quoted your last few lines because you expressed
    the matter of how to "reach out for new members (or bring back
    -exs)." A new program, especially iOS support, might impress some
    people (and they tell two friends, and they tell two friends, and so
    on) ..but the one important matter is to generate the awareness of fidonet, that it is not (yet) a dead dog. <g> And then, get people discover what it is, why it exists, how it works and *how* to get
    onboard with at least the current fair of progs.

    That's right. Fidonet is not for everybody. It's like bringing back the life
    to Commodore64 with either Arduino or a virtual emulator.

    There has been a recent 2nd wind to revisit the condition of the fidonet.org site - and fix it.

    That is mostly like Web Archive, a museum and the history of 1st social
    network of 80th, 90th.

    From the perspective of messaging (echomail), how can people be
    convinced that the fidonet network is even worthwhile?

    It is not, think of it more like a boutique. We don't want to make Fidonet
    just another messenger or forum.

    Best Regards, Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Nil Alexandrov on Thursday, April 04, 2019 19:46:38
    On 04/04/2019 11:43 a.m., Nil Alexandrov : August Abolins wrote:

    http://utf8everywhere.org

    The fact that you don't care about charsets and encodings is that
    all software developers just started using Unicode/utf8 everywhere
    since about 2000.

    I never said I don't care. I do like the automatic rendering of UTF-8 using Thunderbird reader. However, there is a problem in my OpenXP (originally a German program). Not sure about UTF-8 in WinPoint.

    Thanks for the link. Looks good. I will check it out, later.


    Also, as an English native speaker you don't read non-Latin alphabet text, except those fancy accents present in French which is well supported within 8-bit encoding.

    I am *not* a native English speaker. ;) French is a third language, but hardly fluent. Wanna guess my first?


    The rest of the world was suffering from multiple encodings
    until the Unicode standard took place.

    I concur. UTF-8 = a good thing!

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to Dale Shipp on Thursday, April 04, 2019 20:09:02
    Hello, Dale!

    Thursday April 04 2019 00:46, from Dale Shipp -> Nil Alexandrov:

    Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like
    me. I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to
    change. I don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used
    to make voice calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling
    home to check on an item on the grocery list. It costs me about
    US$5.00 per month.

    Interestingly, the QWK workflow was never a trend in Z2, instead we moved to the point systems when we needed to automatically download echomail for
    offline reading. I'm still not sure whether points were the thing in Z1 ever?

    Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to August Abolins on Thursday, April 04, 2019 20:22:26
    Hello, August!

    Thursday April 04 2019 01:45, from August Abolins -> Nil Alexandrov:

    Regarding Aftershock, can you blame a resourceful programmer to fetch
    "something" for the effort? <g> People have the choice to vote with
    their wallet.

    It is said that Aftershock is closer to the original Fidonet interface (whatever it is), whereas HotdgEd is full of features users are happy with.

    Regarding HotdogEd, how long has it been out? The author's site only seems to document version 2.12 from 2016 as the earliest.

    I found the following message with the subject "HotdogEd v1 (beta 1)"
    in Russian dated back to 3/21/13, http://wfido.ru/m/RU.FIDONET.DIGEST/2:5020/849+514b1d29

    2 progs are certainly better than none at this juncture. ;) Doesn't
    android have a bigger demographic/userbase than iOS?

    Android has definitely cheaper options but previous iOS models are well discounted as well.

    Regarding no apps available for iOS, maybe development for that is
    more complicated? Maybe the right person needs to have the time and
    the fire to tackle the project.

    One of the reason we don't have the iOS app is that it requires the $100 developer license fee per year (such a showstopper) in order to install
    the app on your device.

    Ya.. right out of the gate, programs/apps can be quite "ordinary". In
    time and with user input, the UI can be improved.

    Which may help to target the ordinary users to join out party.

    The HotdogEd author seems to do a very faithful job in providing the documentation and installation steps. A community of users can help
    each other too.

    Unfortunately, he's stepped away from the development due to the "real job" schedule recently, and the true open source spirit is not picking up.

    80x25 textmode messages browsing.
    Noted! The trend *has* been larger screens for the handheld devices.
    I tried a simple newsgroup reader on my iPod several years ago and wondered "how is this even practical?" The iPod 2nd, 3rd and even
    4th Gen screen is way too small for frequent message editing. But..
    the tablets (even with external keyboards) can be quite workable.

    So it might be the particular format belong to its era and it's hard to resurrect in different environment.

    Sync seems to be promoted heavily in other applications like Mozilla (bookmarks, history, tabs, passwords) across all of the devices you
    might use. I wouldn't be surprised if a sync solution for fidonet emerged out of the resourceful folks in R50 or its neighbors.

    It's an interesting phenomenon here in R50, that we have mostly the full spectrum of ages presented in our Fidonet segment according to the recent census. How do we get young folks? Most are .curious., some of them are
    the kids of the old sysops. The thing is that they possess multiple gadgets
    so the matter of synching across them becomes natural.

    Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to August Abolins on Thursday, April 04, 2019 13:49:32

    On 2019 Apr 03 23:24:00, you wrote to Nil Alexandrov:

    .. UTF-8 support which adds all those emoji and the possibility to
    mix different languages in one message would be pretty much standard
    thing to expect from todays app.

    For me, the unicode vs utf-8

    unicode is UTF-8/16/32 ;)

    and char sets is complicated.

    trying to convert to the old 256 sot codepages is fraught with peril... going the other way is easy as pie...

    Isn't there a backward compatibility issue in force with fidonet?

    yes there could be... only those unable to properly display multi byte glyphs on their device would have problems, though...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Them that has, gets.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to August Abolins on Thursday, April 04, 2019 21:42:36
    Hello, August!

    Thursday April 04 2019 19:46, from August Abolins -> Nil Alexandrov:

    I never said I don't care. I do like the automatic rendering of UTF-8 using Thunderbird reader. However, there is a problem in my OpenXP (originally a German program). Not sure about UTF-8 in WinPoint.

    We've never tried out OpenXP or WinPoint in R50, is it German local market software? BTW, we would like to use jamnntpd instead of Fidogate+INN or old ifmail+INN, but just cannot due to the lack charset support.

    I am *not* a native English speaker. ;) French is a third language,
    but hardly fluent. Wanna guess my first?

    Oh, my, should've checked the nodelist first, ah yeah Finland language?

    Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Nil Alexandrov on Thursday, April 04, 2019 11:46:34
    Interestingly, the QWK workflow was never a trend in Z2, instead we moved to the point systems when we needed to automatically download echomail for offline reading. I'm still not sure whether points were the thing in Z1 ever?

    They are. I use a point myself, more for convenience than anything else. In the

    last year or so I have had two points here that have both gone on to become regular nodes in the net.

    No points at the moment but I keep an eye out for folks who would like a point address.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Dale Shipp on Thursday, April 04, 2019 21:31:00
    On 04-04-19 00:46, Dale Shipp wrote to Nil Alexandrov <=-

    Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like
    me. I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.
    I don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used to make
    voice calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling home to
    check on an item on the grocery list. It costs me about US$5.00 per month.

    If there was a better solution for mobile devices, I would use it in situations where I wanted to make a few quick posts. At this time, that's not easy, have to jump through a few hoops with either NNTP (better UI for a phone, but synchronisation issues, becayse status information is kept client side), or QWK - better data integrity, but UI not as mobile friendly (either window too small or overlapping keyboard).

    HotDogEd and AfterShock aren't a solution, because for me, a point on a phone has the same synchronisation issues as NNTP, if not worse, because is effectively a separate FTN system.


    ... A life? Where can I download that?
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to Alan Ianson on Friday, April 05, 2019 00:26:04
    Hello, Alan!

    Thursday April 04 2019 11:46, from Alan Ianson -> Nil Alexandrov:

    I use a point myself, more for convenience than anything else. In the
    last year or so I have had two points here that have both gone on to become regular nodes in the net.

    That's right. There is no point to have a point <g> nowadays where the requirement for having an IP node is pretty flexible (in terms of ZMH and stuff) or almost negligible in case of EON (Email Only Node).

    No points at the moment but I keep an eye out for folks who would like
    a point address.

    You should create an attractive WebBBS or a mobile app so it can issue a point system automatically, otherwise the standard FTN style point system over binkp protocol and friends is just an overkill for a curious guy landed on your home page <g>.

    Best Regards, Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tony Langdon on Thursday, April 04, 2019 18:25:00
    Hello Tony!

    ** 04.04.19 - 21:31, Tony Langdon wrote to Dale Shipp:

    If there was a better solution for mobile devices, I would use it in situations where I wanted to make a few quick posts. At this time,
    that's not easy, have to jump through a few hoops with either NNTP
    (better UI for a phone, but synchronisation issues, becayse status information is kept client side), or QWK - better data integrity, but
    UI not as mobile friendly (either window too small or overlapping keyboard).

    Do you thing something like what IMAP does for email might work?

    When I configure people's email from SMTP to IMAP they are impressed that
    it makes no difference whether they use their laptop, desktop or mobile device. Webbased access to their mail is a bonus if the usual pc/device
    is not useable.


    HotDogEd and AfterShock aren't a solution, because for me, a point on a phone has the same synchronisation issues as NNTP, if not worse, because
    is effectively a separate FTN system.

    Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location. No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Nil Alexandrov on Thursday, April 04, 2019 18:33:00
    Hello Nil!

    ** 04.04.19 - 21:42, Nil Alexandrov wrote to August Abolins:

    We've never tried out OpenXP or WinPoint in R50, is it German local
    market software?

    Both progs are of German origin.


    BTW, we would like to use jamnntpd instead of Fidogate+INN or old ifmail+INN, but just cannot due to the lack charset support.

    Jamnntpd is probably your best choice at this time simply because the
    charset options are more flexible.


    I am *not* a native English speaker. ;) French is a third
    language, but hardly fluent. Wanna guess my first?

    Oh, my, should've checked the nodelist first, ah yeah Finland language?

    Heheheh. <g> Nope. My last name might be the best clue. ;)

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Alan Ianson on Thursday, April 04, 2019 18:54:00
    Hello Alan!

    ** 04.04.19 - 11:46, Alan Ianson wrote to Nil Alexandrov:

    Interestingly, the QWK workflow was never a trend in Z2, instead we
    moved to the point systems when we needed to automatically download
    echomail for offline reading..

    ..I use a point myself, more for convenience than anything else. In
    the last year or so I have had two points here that have both gone on
    to become regular nodes in the net.

    No points at the moment but I keep an eye out for folks who would like
    a point address.

    I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the imagination of message/echomail users in NA. Maybe it was the timing of internet access coming into town and drawing people away to that.

    Myself, I had about 12 or 15 dedicated points up to about year 2004.
    People loved the short-sessions and efficiency moving messages over
    dialup.

    But I "pushed" it and demostrated how it works. A real-life demo helped
    to sell the idea.

    I lost favour in QWK for a variety of reasons.
    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Nil Alexandrov on Thursday, April 04, 2019 19:27:00
    Hello Nil!

    ** 04.04.19 - 20:22, Nil Alexandrov wrote to August Abolins:

    I found the following message with the subject "HotdogEd v1 (beta 1)"
    in Russian dated back to 3/21/13, http://wfido.ru/m/RU.FIDONET.DIGEST/2:5020/849+514b1d29

    Thanks for the historical info!


    One of the reason we don't have the iOS app is that it requires the
    $100 developer license fee per year (such a showstopper) in order to install the app on your device.

    Outch. I was not aware of that. And, per year? With that kind of fee I don't think you'd ever see a free fidonet app for iOS.


    ..I wouldn't be surprised if a sync solution for fidonet emerged out
    of the resourceful folks in R50 or its neighbors.

    It's an interesting phenomenon here in R50, that we have mostly the full spectrum of ages presented in our Fidonet segment according to the recent census. How do we get young folks? Most are .curious., some of them are
    the kids of the old sysops. The thing is that they possess multiple
    gadgets so the matter of synching across them becomes natural.

    Maybe have a series of YouTube videos on the "fears fun and foibles of fidonet" (tm) ?


    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to mark lewis on Thursday, April 04, 2019 19:30:00
    Hello mark!

    ** 04.04.19 - 13:49, mark lewis wrote to August Abolins:

    For me, the unicode vs utf-8 and char sets is complicated.

    unicode is UTF-8/16/32 ;)

    Thanks for that! It was ages since I was concerned with charsets. Now,
    it's coming back - a bit. lol



    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dale Shipp on Thursday, April 04, 2019 19:49:00
    Hello Dale!

    ** 04.04.19 - 00:46, Dale Shipp wrote to Nil Alexandrov:

    The whole world has moved from desktops and laptops towards mobile
    gadgets for most of the daily tasks including reading news and all
    those online social network activities. IMHO the first priority in

    Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like
    me. I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to
    change.

    But we are here to discuss the future and the changes! <g> Do you not
    see any areas of improvement?

    Do you have an option to use the QWKE format? You wouldn't have cut-off subject lines.


    I don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used to make
    voice calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling home to
    check on an item on the grocery list. It costs me about US$5.00 per
    month.

    No cell phone for me (yet). But I have a couple of iPods that were
    primarily obtained as mp3 players several years ago. The built-in wi-fi
    is handy for a few things like a weather report, or to check email status.
    I tried a nntp/newsgroup reader on one of them. It was ok to monitor activity, but reading on a tiny screen was not comfortable. And creating useful posts was too hard on my thumbs.

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to August Abolins on Thursday, April 04, 2019 20:01:10

    On 2019 Apr 04 18:54:00, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the imagination of message/echomail users in NA.

    mostly because of no cost local calls... why be a point when you can connect to

    your favorite BBS to read/write messages online as well as uploading/downloading files and playing some door games... especially when a lot of systems gave users 60 minutes per day or more and were also able to offer multiple nodes so more than one user could be online at a time...

    users genreally didn't have a problem installing an offline mail package since it was one program... trying to do the same for the piece-part point systems available at the time was more problematic... might as well set up a BBS with a

    tosser and mailer...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Murphy was thinking of me when he wrote those laws.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to mark lewis on Thursday, April 04, 2019 22:26:00
    Hello mark!

    ** 04.04.19 - 20:01, mark lewis wrote to August Abolins:

    On 2019 Apr 04 18:54:00, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the
    imagination of message/echomail users in NA.

    mostly because of no cost local calls... why be a point when you can connect to your favorite BBS to read/write messages online as well as uploading/downloading files and playing some door games... especially when a lot of systems gave users 60 minutes per day or more and were also able to offer multiple nodes so more than one user could be online at a time...

    Ya.. there is the "game" part of it to keep users online for a while.

    But my audience was interested in inexpensive email (which I provided by a gateway) primarily. Then, I introduced echomail, and most users loved it.


    users genreally didn't have a problem installing an offline mail package since it was one program... trying to do the same for the piece-part point systems available at the time was more problematic... might as well set up a BBS with a tosser and mailer...

    I don't recall any piece-part issues with Frontdoor/APX. It seemed to be
    an all-in-one, if I remember correctly, as that is what I preconfigured on diskette.

    People loved the quick dialup, delivering and getting things done in a few seconds. I rarely had complaints about busy signals. The phone would receive many calls one after another. I had 2 lines at first for about a year, and then added 2 more.

    But the blight of AOL diskettes/CDs started showing up in everyone's mail boxes, and like the Pied Piper, lured the people away to the "innernet"
    (as they pronounced here).

    I cut back my 4 lines to 2, the phone calls would sometimes be spread out between days, and then one day my hdd crashed. :(







    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 06:16:46
    Hello, August,

    Thursday April 04 2019 18:33, from August Abolins -> Nil Alexandrov:

    Heheheh. <g> Nope. My last name might be the best clue. ;)

    No idea but I Googled it, so your last name is highly likely Latvian.
    The other source is the nodelist search tool http://nodehist.fidonet.org.ua/?name=August+Abolins which shows a bunch of nodes under your name in Quebec and Ontario Canada. So I must admit that you confused me a bit ;-)

    Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 06:28:52
    Hello, August!

    Thursday April 04 2019 19:27, from August Abolins -> Nil Alexandrov:

    One of the reason we don't have the iOS app is that it requires
    the $100 developer license fee per year (such a showstopper) in
    order to install the app on your device.
    Outch. I was not aware of that. And, per year? With that kind of
    fee I don't think you'd ever see a free fidonet app for iOS.

    The Apple Developer Program annual fee is 99 USD

    But you as a developer can maintain a bunch of apps, not just the fidonet one under this lincese. It would probably scare away folks who is going to do
    their first home project <g>

    ..I wouldn't be surprised if a sync solution for fidonet emerged
    out of the resourceful folks in R50 or its neighbors.

    Maybe have a series of YouTube videos on the "fears fun and foibles of
    fidonet" (tm) ?

    I was thinking of making some UT videos about Fidonet and stuff and I can do
    it in a few languages (show off) but the thing is.. it isn't popular at all, for example check out the "Mystic Guy" on UT posting his Mystic BBS tutorials and has got only 551 subscribers.

    Best Regards, Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Nil Alexandrov on Friday, April 05, 2019 00:30:00
    Hello Nil!

    ** 05.04.19 - 06:16, Nil Alexandrov wrote to August Abolins:

    Heheheh. <g> Nope. My last name might be the best clue. ;)

    No idea but I Googled it, so your last name is highly likely Latvian.
    The other source is the nodelist search tool http://nodehist.fidonet.org.ua/?name=August+Abolins which shows a bunch of nodes under your name in Quebec and Ontario Canada. So I must admit that you confused me a bit ;-)

    Sveiks!

    Yes.. Latvian, 1st generation Canadian born.

    As you would know, the node address may have nothing to do with a place of residence. With the adoption of using internet for connections these
    days, users have greater freedom to align with any system they want.

    It can be hard *not* to think of the nodelist as an address book anymore.

    It's just a "phone" book in my mind.

    BTW, the nodelist shows a your name/system simultaneously in Z1 and Z2. Very cool! But how is that supposed to work? :/



    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 00:36:06

    On 2019 Apr 04 22:26:00, you wrote to me:

    users genreally didn't have a problem installing an offline mail
    package since it was one program... trying to do the same for the
    piece-part point systems available at the time was more problematic...
    might as well set up a BBS with a tosser and mailer...

    I don't recall any piece-part issues with Frontdoor/APX. It seemed to be an all-in-one, if I remember correctly, as that is what I preconfigured on
    diskette.

    it was an all-in-one but it also arrived rather late to the game...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Spiders inspire pathological dread amongst the easily dread filled.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Nil Alexandrov on Friday, April 05, 2019 01:19:00
    Hello Nil!

    ** 05.04.19 - 06:28, Nil Alexandrov wrote to August Abolins:

    Maybe have a series of YouTube videos on the "fears fun and foibles
    of fidonet" (tm) ?

    I was thinking of making some UT videos about Fidonet and stuff and I can do it in a few languages (show off) but the thing is.. it isn't popular at all, for example check out the "Mystic Guy" on UT posting his Mystic BBS tutorials and has got only 551 subscribers.

    I looked that up. I watched a couple. They are very good! Subscribers
    may seem low, but the number of views per video are in the thousands.

    The oldest one might be from just 2 years ago, but the guy is keeping
    things current and expiring old videos that do not match the latest
    versions of Mystic. Good work.


    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to mark lewis on Friday, April 05, 2019 01:56:00
    Hello mark!

    ** 05.04.19 - 00:36, mark lewis wrote to August Abolins:

    I don't recall any piece-part issues with Frontdoor/APX. It seemed
    to be an all-in-one, if I remember correctly..

    it was an all-in-one but it also arrived rather late to the game...


    Things were certainly in flux in a big way as internet dialup services
    gained popularity. Oh.. the memories.

    I'd probably use FD/apx today if it wasn't for the necessity of additional software hacks to deal with the hardcoded com ports to support internet
    use.

    Just before the internet/www browser approach took off, there was a very interesting BBS solution by Shotgun BBS. It operated with a client/server style setup. The user ran a client program that dialed up the bbs and the local user would have a very nice SVGA graphics interface experience. It
    was designed to be a very efficient way to have wiz-bang graphics over
    modest dialup. I loved it.

    What do see the future to be for "the game"?

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Nil Alexandrov on Friday, April 05, 2019 01:10:04
    On 04-04-19 20:09, Nil Alexandrov <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-

    Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like
    me. I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to
    change. I don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used
    to make voice calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling
    home to check on an item on the grocery list. It costs me about
    US$5.00 per month.

    Interestingly, the QWK workflow was never a trend in Z2, instead we
    moved to the point systems when we needed to automatically download echomail for offline reading. I'm still not sure whether points were
    the thing in Z1 ever?

    Points were not as big in Z1 as they were in Z2. Reasons had to do with
    the differences in how the telephone companies charged for calls -- or
    at least that is how it got explained to me. I was a point for my first
    few years, but used it to download into my Maximus/Squish data base and
    then make a QWK packet from there to read in Bluewave. But when I boss
    node left fido, I was given a node number in the local net. I still use Maximus/Squish/QWK/Bluewave for messages.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)




    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:14:34, 05 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Tony Langdon on Friday, April 05, 2019 01:15:06
    On 04-04-19 21:31, Tony Langdon <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: topics.. let's hear <=-

    Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like
    me. I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.
    I don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used to make
    voice calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling home to
    check on an item on the grocery list. It costs me about US$5.00 per month.

    If there was a better solution for mobile devices, I would
    use it in situations

    My mobile device is a dumb phone that is rarely turned on. It lives in
    the glove box of my car. I only use it for emergencies, or to call home
    to check on the grocery list.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:16:29, 05 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 01:17:08
    On 04-04-19 18:25, August Abolins <=-
    spoke to Tony Langdon about a sync solution for fidon <=-

    ** 04.04.19 - 21:31, Tony Langdon wrote to Dale Shipp:

    Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
    No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.

    Old and fixed -- I resemble that :-}}

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:17:54, 05 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 01:18:10
    On 04-04-19 19:49, August Abolins <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-

    But we are here to discuss the future and the changes! <g> Do you
    not see any areas of improvement?

    None that I would use.

    Do you have an option to use the QWKE format? You wouldn't have
    cut-off subject lines.

    Nope. I don't think that Maximus has that option. I have heard of it,
    but don't fully know the distinctions. I don't think it ever caught on
    as good as QWK did. I seem to recall that Bluewave can handle QWKE, but
    not even sure of that.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:21:46, 05 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 01:33:12
    On 04-04-19 18:54, August Abolins <=-
    spoke to Alan Ianson about qwk and/or points <=-

    I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the imagination of message/echomail users in NA.

    As has been explained to me by various Z2 folks, the reason had mostly
    to do with the way telephone companies charged. In Europe, calls were
    time metered -- i.e. you paid for the time you called. In the USA, that
    was not the case for local calls. Depending on your plan with the
    telco, you either paid a flat rate for each call or all local calls were
    free. Long distance calls did charge based on the time of the call (and
    the distance).

    I'm not totally sure that explanation is completely true. Many users in
    the USA would call a BBS, download a mail packet, and then read that
    mail packet offline. Seems to me that would take no more time than
    accessing via point software.

    Maybe it was the timing
    of internet access coming into town and drawing people away to that.

    I think that may well be the reason for the loss of members of Fidonet.
    Folks moved away to other means of talking etc.

    Myself, I had about 12 or 15 dedicated points up to about year 2004. People loved the short-sessions and efficiency moving messages over dialup.

    Ditto for downloading a QWK or BlueWave packet.

    Another factor with respect to points -- as some has said, a point is
    really a sysop in training. At least as far as operationg a mail only
    system is concerned. Here in the US, we have a number of users of BBSes
    who have no intention of becoming sysops. They are happy with
    communicating in the echos via a BBS.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:43:18, 05 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Thursday, April 04, 2019 23:09:00
    August Abolins wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the imagination of message/echomail users in NA. Maybe it was the timing
    of internet access coming into town and drawing people away to that.

    Running a point instead of being a user on a BBS eliminates all of the
    art of a BBS and only provides the content. QWK lets you receive the
    best of both worlds.



    ... Do you ever see inconsistencies in your world?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 17:53:00
    On 04-04-19 18:25, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Do you thing something like what IMAP does for email might work?

    When I configure people's email from SMTP to IMAP they are impressed
    that it makes no difference whether they use their laptop, desktop or mobile device. Webbased access to their mail is a bonus if the usual pc/device is not useable.

    Yes and no. Yes, in that IMAP synchronises prefectly between devices, no in that most implementations still leave you tied to the network back end in real time - I know you can go offline with IMAP too, but I know in Thunderbird, it's a bit quirky - That's more an implementation issue than an IMAP issue.


    HotDogEd and AfterShock aren't a solution, because for me, a point on a phone has the same synchronisation issues as NNTP, if not worse, because is effectively a separate FTN system.

    Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
    No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.

    And back in the 90s, a point worked really well, especially one like mine which was a fully functional BBS (that normally didn't listen for calls), from which I could download a QWK/Bluewave packet for use on a borrowed laptop or to carry around on a floppy disk (I had Bluewave on another floppy).

    The modern reality is we are highly mobile nowadays, and some of us do swap devices fery frequently, depending on needs at the time.


    ... Try this chicken. It tastes just like rattlesnake.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Dale Shipp on Friday, April 05, 2019 17:54:00
    On 04-05-19 01:15, Dale Shipp wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    My mobile device is a dumb phone that is rarely turned on. It lives in the glove box of my car. I only use it for emergencies, or to call
    home to check on the grocery list.

    That puts you in the minority these days. Just because you don't use a smartphone, doesn't mean no one uses them.


    ... An instantaneous power-supply crowbar circuit will operate too late.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to mark lewis on Friday, April 05, 2019 18:04:00
    On 04-04-19 20:01, mark lewis wrote to August Abolins <=-


    On 2019 Apr 04 18:54:00, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the imagination of message/echomail users in NA.

    mostly because of no cost local calls... why be a point when you can connect to your favorite BBS to read/write messages online as well as uploading/downloading files and playing some door games... especially
    when a lot of systems gave users 60 minutes per day or more and were
    also able to offer multiple nodes so more than one user could be online
    at a time...

    In Australia, we had flat fee untimed local calls, so there were no real incentives for setting up a point. However, I did run a point for a number of years. My point was a full blown BBS - in fact, it was a clone of the main RA BBS, reconfigured as a point. In its day, where my main PC ran 95%+ of mail, it worked _really_ well. And for those times I wanted to use another device (most commonly a laptop), I could simply grab a Bluewave packet off the point and copy it to the laptop.

    Today, this doesn't work, because now I have BBSs on site, which fulfil the role of the point. And mobile devices have very poor offline support (basically whatever you can cobble together in Magic DOSBox on Android, nothing on iOS).

    users genreally didn't have a problem installing an offline mail
    package since it was one program... trying to do the same for the piece-part point systems available at the time was more problematic... might as well set up a BBS with a tosser and mailer...

    Or spin one off a working BBS, like I did. :)


    ... There are things that are so serious that you can only joke about them
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 18:07:00
    On 04-04-19 22:26, August Abolins wrote to mark lewis <=-

    Ya.. there is the "game" part of it to keep users online for a while.

    I kept my online time for file downloads. :)

    But my audience was interested in inexpensive email (which I provided
    by a gateway) primarily. Then, I introduced echomail, and most users loved it.

    Echomail was the main focus of my system. I added some Usenet and mailing lists later via GIGO on my point system.

    People loved the quick dialup, delivering and getting things done in a
    few seconds. I rarely had complaints about busy signals. The phone
    would receive many calls one after another. I had 2 lines at first for about a year, and then added 2 more.

    For me the biggest advantage of the point was that I could initiate a poll and then walk away until the system was back in idle mode, then I could read my mail at leisure.


    ... Totally non-offensive tagline. G-rated.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 18:08:00
    On 04-05-19 01:56, August Abolins wrote to mark lewis <=-

    Just before the internet/www browser approach took off, there was a
    very interesting BBS solution by Shotgun BBS. It operated with a client/server style setup. The user ran a client program that dialed
    up the bbs and the local user would have a very nice SVGA graphics interface experience. It was designed to be a very efficient way to
    have wiz-bang graphics over modest dialup. I loved it.

    This approach and RIP turned out to be too little too late for the BBS scene. Sad, as there was a bit of innovation at the time. I never got to try any of the graphical BBS interfaces.


    ... It ain't over, but the fat lady is clearing her throat.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Nil Alexandrov on Friday, April 05, 2019 18:48:00
    On 04-04-19 18:43, Nil Alexandrov wrote to August Abolins <=-

    http://utf8everywhere.org

    Makes a good argument for UTF-8. Besides, all my Linux machines use UTF-8 by default.

    The fact that you don't care about charsets and encodings is that all software developers just started using Unicode/utf8 everywhere since
    about 2000.

    Also, as an English native speaker you don't read non-Latin alphabet
    text, except those fancy accents present in French which is well
    supported within 8-bit encoding. The rest of the world was suffering
    from multiple encodings until the Unicode standard took place.

    These days, UTF-8 should be the standard for message transmission. We _are_ an international network, and we should use the best international support we can.
    The question for Fidonet, of course, is ensuring legacy software will still work - BBSs, tossers, mailers, readers, terminal apps, etc.


    ... The Fifth Rule: You have taken yourself too seriously.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 18:50:00
    On 04-04-19 19:46, August Abolins wrote to Nil Alexandrov <=-

    The rest of the world was suffering from multiple encodings
    until the Unicode standard took place.

    I concur. UTF-8 = a good thing!

    No argument from me either.


    ... I'm as confused as a baby at a topless bar!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Nil Alexandrov on Friday, April 05, 2019 00:44:08
    You should create an attractive WebBBS or a mobile app so it can issue a point >system automatically, otherwise the standard FTN style point system over binkp >protocol and friends is just an overkill for a curious guy landed on your home
    page <g>.

    That is exactly what I need but I don't know how to go about it (I am no web developer). I currently have the BBBS default web BBS up and that works well for folks who know what that is.

    I need a general BBS web page with info on the BBS, BBSing and messaging (at least). A web form for nodes interested in the net (nodes or points) would be a

    good thing too.

    I also need to get https working. One step at a time I guess.. :)

    I've been thinking about all the above for a long time and I might even be able

    to get it done at some point. Free time can be an issue also.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 00:52:00
    Myself, I had about 12 or 15 dedicated points up to about year 2004.
    People loved the short-sessions and efficiency moving messages over
    dialup.

    Back in the day I had roughly three points that would change as time went by.

    But I "pushed" it and demostrated how it works. A real-life demo helped
    to sell the idea.

    I did have a web interface at one time with links and various BBS and network info. Given time and a bit of a learning curve I'll see if I can do something like that again.

    I lost favour in QWK for a variety of reasons.

    I am favourable to offline mail. The difference between a point and offline is that the point has the whole history where with offline you are limited to what

    is in your packet. I guess that works for some.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to August Abolins on Friday, April 05, 2019 01:04:06
    The oldest one might be from just 2 years ago, but the guy is keeping
    things current and expiring old videos that do not match the latest
    versions of Mystic. Good work.

    I haven't seen any of the video's there recently but the fellow who does those video's runs fsxNet, a rather successful othernet, thanks in large part I believe to those videos. If it can work for fsxNet I don't see why it wouldn't work for Fidonet also.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Dale Shipp on Friday, April 05, 2019 01:07:54
    Old and fixed -- I resemble that :-}}

    Don't feel bad. The main use for my PCs is either to run the BBS (although the BBS runs in a linode these days) or a terminal to access the BBS. :)

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dale Shipp on Friday, April 05, 2019 12:43:42

    On 2019 Apr 05 01:18:10, you wrote to August Abolins:

    Do you have an option to use the QWKE format? You wouldn't have
    cut-off subject lines.

    Nope. I don't think that Maximus has that option.

    it probably doesn't... QWKE was brought to us by Pete Rocca in 1994...

    I have heard of it, but don't fully know the distinctions. I don't
    think it ever caught on as good as QWK did.

    QWKE is simply an extension to QWK... some things are stored in an additional file that QWKE capable systems/readers can use instead of the shorter restricted data in the original QWK specification... i found a copy of the v1.02 specs and uploaded it to my system so as to try to help ensure that it doesn't disappear...

    ftp://sestar.synchro.net/main/BBS/qwke-102.txt

    i added the version number to it but the other copies i found were all just named "qwke.txt"... with your QWK experience, you might find the spec interesting...

    I seem to recall that Bluewave can handle QWKE, but not even sure of
    that.

    i'm not sure, without digging, either... i don't think so, though, considering the dates...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Hell is kept warm with profane burners.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Alan Ianson on Friday, April 05, 2019 19:59:00
    Hello Alan!

    ** 05.04.19 - 00:52, Alan Ianson wrote to August Abolins:


    I lost favour in QWK for a variety of reasons.

    I am favourable to offline mail. The difference between a point and
    offline is that the point has the whole history where with offline you
    are limited to what is in your packet. I guess that works for some.

    The traditional QWK/REP method started to become laborious and pressure mounted when I was anxious to get the next packet *before* I was finished reading and replying in the previous one.

    But then... I discovered SemPoint (Windows). It could consolidate all
    the QWK packet messages into an accumulating database.

    And.. it supported Jam, Squish, PKT, and a few other formats,
    concurrently. It needed an external tosser/scanner though.

    And now, all-inclusive point software such OpenXP are quite fine alternatives.

    I wish I could get SemPoint working again. I seem to remember having absolutley no trouble setting it up the first time many years ago. But
    now, it's complaining "unable to save message in Area" :(

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Alan Ianson on Friday, April 05, 2019 20:07:00
    Hello Alan!

    ..The main use for my PCs is either to run the BBS
    (although the BBS runs in a linode these days) or a terminal to access
    the BBS. :)

    It's the first time I hear of linode. Had to look it up
    (www.linode.com?). So, it's a kinda your own linux-based pc operating in
    the cloud?

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tony Langdon on Friday, April 05, 2019 20:15:00
    Hello Tony!

    ** 05.04.19 - 17:53, Tony Langdon wrote to August Abolins:

    Do you think something like what IMAP does for email might work?

    Yes and no. Yes, in that IMAP synchronises prefectly between devices,
    no in that most implementations still leave you tied to the network
    back end in real time - I know you can go offline with IMAP too, but..

    If an IMAP-like solution could work with fidonet, what's the problem with being "tied to the network"? I guess I don't catch your meaning.


    The modern reality is we are highly mobile nowadays, and some of us do
    swap devices fery frequently, depending on needs at the time.

    Maybe a mock demo would help describe your vision.

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tony Langdon on Friday, April 05, 2019 20:21:00
    Hello Tony!

    ** 05.04.19 - 18:04, Tony Langdon wrote to mark lewis:

    users genreally didn't have a problem installing an offline mail
    package since it was one program... trying to do the same for the
    piece-part point systems available at the time was more problematic... ml>> might as well set up a BBS with a tosser and mailer...

    Or spin one off a working BBS, like I did. :)

    Isn't that akin to having a 12 cylinder engine in a sub-compact car? <g>


    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tony Langdon on Friday, April 05, 2019 20:30:00
    Hello Tony!

    ** 05.04.19 - 18:07, Tony Langdon wrote to August Abolins:

    But my audience was interested in inexpensive email (which I provided
    by a gateway) primarily. Then, I introduced echomail, and most users
    loved it.

    Echomail was the main focus of my system. I added some Usenet and mailing lists later via GIGO on my point system.

    Oh my.. that brings back a memory. I believe I used that too. I had a Waffle gateway to the usenet/internet.


    For me the biggest advantage of the point was that I could initiate a poll and then walk away until the system was back in idle mode, then I could read my mail at leisure.

    Precisely. The whole automated proces is what sold me to the idea of enjoying messages. I hated tying up a phone line while navigating a BBS manually. But, I loved the bidirectional Zmodem with chat. That was too cool back in the day.


    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tony Langdon on Friday, April 05, 2019 20:36:00
    Hello Tony!

    ** 05.04.19 - 18:08, Tony Langdon wrote to August Abolins:

    Just before the internet/www browser approach took off, there was a
    very interesting BBS solution by Shotgun BBS.

    This approach and RIP turned out to be too little too late for the BBS scene. Sad, as there was a bit of innovation at the time. I never got to try any of the graphical BBS interfaces.

    The graphics were much better than the ansi offerings in standard bbses at the time. Mouseble too.

    The concept was brilliant, IMHO.


    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dale Shipp on Friday, April 05, 2019 20:41:00
    Hello Dale!

    ** 05.04.19 - 01:17, Dale Shipp wrote to August Abolins:


    Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
    No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.

    Old and fixed -- I resemble that :-}}

    <g>

    Have you ever wondered "if only.." a certain aspect of what you are doing could be improved somehow?

    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Kurt Weiske on Friday, April 05, 2019 20:44:00
    Hello Kurt!

    ** 04.04.19 - 23:09, Kurt Weiske wrote to August Abolins:

    I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the
    imagination of message/echomail users..

    Running a point instead of being a user on a BBS eliminates all of the
    art of a BBS and only provides the content. QWK lets you receive the
    best of both worlds.

    Ah.. but the "art" of operating a point proggie like OpenXP can be quite
    an experience. <g>


    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.36
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to August Abolins on Saturday, April 06, 2019 08:50:40
    Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
    No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.

    Just telling you that this point operates on an Android tablet which moves with

    me worldwide, and those that know me know that I do get around. Not a fixed location by any definition in the book.

    Right now I'm on the Northsea on a sailyacht, enjoying my morning coffee and about to send this message from this point system via an Iridium capable phone acting as a hotspot linked to a satellite. Works great, someone else pays the Iridium bill.

    Very mobile ... And the point system can also run from my phone without tablet.

    Weren't you one of those harping about me rejecting change?

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to August Abolins on Saturday, April 06, 2019 00:21:04
    ..The main use for my PCs is either to run the BBS
    (although the BBS runs in a linode these days) or a terminal to access
    the BBS. :)

    It's the first time I hear of linode. Had to look it up
    (www.linode.com?). So, it's a kinda your own linux-based pc operating in
    the cloud?

    Yes, it's a dedicated server (or I guess what they call in the cloud today).

    Im my case the BBS is running in the lowest cost ($5/month) option so it's not actually a dedicated machine but it runs the BBS nicely. It has IPv4 and IPv6 and there are options to upgrade as you need.

    I'm not exactly sure what the internet speed is but it is a big fat pipe.. :)

    It's just a trial so I could easily take the BBS back to my own computer but so

    far I am liking it. Uptime is something greater that 99%.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Tony Langdon on Saturday, April 06, 2019 02:30:00
    On 04-05-19 17:54, Tony Langdon <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: topics.. let's hear <=-


    On 04-05-19 01:15, Dale Shipp wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    My mobile device is a dumb phone that is rarely turned on. It lives in the glove box of my car. I only use it for emergencies, or to call
    home to check on the grocery list.

    That puts you in the minority these days. Just because you don't use
    a smartphone, doesn't mean no one uses them.

    I am well aware of both of your statements. My point is that what
    works for one person does not universally work for all.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:31:56, 06 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Alan Ianson on Saturday, April 06, 2019 02:34:02
    On 04-05-19 00:52, Alan Ianson <=-
    spoke to August Abolins about qwk and/or points <=-

    I am favourable to offline mail. The difference between a
    point and offline is that the point has the whole history
    where with offline you are limited to what is in your
    packet. I guess that works for some.

    Not so true. The point can only keep so much of the message base before
    it overflows. As a user of QWK offline, I have messages dating back for
    twenty years. Of course, searching for previous messages in those
    archives is not easy. Searching in the *recent* message base is much
    easier.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:37:21, 06 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Mark Lewis on Saturday, April 06, 2019 02:38:04
    On 04-05-19 12:43, Mark Lewis <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-

    On 2019 Apr 05 01:18:10, you wrote to August Abolins:

    Do you have an option to use the QWKE format? You wouldn't have
    cut-off subject lines.

    Nope. I don't think that Maximus has that option.

    it probably doesn't... QWKE was brought to us by Pete Rocca in 1994...

    And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use it. I am
    fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:39:49, 06 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to August Abolins on Saturday, April 06, 2019 02:40:06
    On 04-05-19 19:59, August Abolins <=-
    spoke to Alan Ianson about qwk and/or points <=-

    The traditional QWK/REP method started to become laborious and
    pressure mounted when I was anxious to get the next packet *before* I was finished reading and replying in the previous one.

    I always read my mail one QWK packet at a time, each night. If I am
    gone for a while and need to do catch up, I still read them one at a
    time, oldest first.

    But then... I discovered SemPoint (Windows). It could consolidate
    all the QWK packet messages into an accumulating database.

    I seem to recall some software that would combine multiple QWK packets
    into one -- but it never interested me.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:43:13, 06 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to August Abolins on Saturday, April 06, 2019 02:44:08
    On 04-05-19 20:41, August Abolins <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about what's after "old and fix <=-

    Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
    No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.

    Old and fixed -- I resemble that :-}}

    Have you ever wondered "if only.." a certain aspect of what you are
    doing could be improved somehow?

    Often -- and I made good use of that when I worked. But I see nothing
    in my system that needs improvement at the moment. It works for me.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:45:36, 06 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to Dale Shipp on Saturday, April 06, 2019 13:20:31
    Not so true. The point can only keep so much of the message base before it overflows.

    I can run a point under D'Bridge, have done so in the past, and run full message bases without overflow.

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to mark lewis on Friday, April 05, 2019 07:41:00
    mark lewis wrote to August Abolins <=-


    I don't recall any piece-part issues with Frontdoor/APX. It seemed to be an all-in-one, if I remember correctly, as that is what I preconfigured on
    diskette.

    it was an all-in-one but it also arrived rather late to the game...

    I had a backup point running back then, tried FD/apx, but for the most
    part I ran on a setup with a skeleton setup of FD, Squish, and TimEd.



    ... Have you ever asked a question you weren't supposed to ask?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Dale Shipp on Friday, April 05, 2019 07:43:00
    Dale Shipp wrote to August Abolins <=-

    I'm not totally sure that explanation is completely true. Many users
    in the USA would call a BBS, download a mail packet, and then read that mail packet offline. Seems to me that would take no more time than accessing via point software.

    When I started my BBS in 1991, I didn't have an offline door, and my
    BBS would be busy most of the time. I limited my calls to 30 minutes,
    and I'd see some people use every second of that. In 1993 or so I
    discovered BlueWave and installed the door. I got a ton more calls
    with much less usage. I could log onto a local node 24/7 now, but I
    still like downloading a packet and reading offline - it's nice to be
    able to scan ahead to see if someone's already answered a question I'd
    thought to answer.



    ... Do you know where you are?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Saturday, April 06, 2019 08:45:00
    August Abolins wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    Ah.. but the "art" of operating a point proggie like OpenXP can be
    quite an experience. <g>

    I just googled it, looks interesting. Maybe I'll set up a point on my
    linux laptop just for kicks...



    ... State the problem as clearly as possible
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dale Shipp on Saturday, April 06, 2019 12:41:34

    On 2019 Apr 06 02:38:04, you wrote to me:

    Do you have an option to use the QWKE format? You wouldn't have
    cut-off subject lines.

    Nope. I don't think that Maximus has that option.

    it probably doesn't... QWKE was brought to us by Pete Rocca in 1994...

    And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use it. I
    am fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.

    i understand that... my thinking was that the specs are available as is the source code to maximus... my quick look over the QWKE specs seemed to indicate that it is as easy an addition to make as they say it is... adding it to maximus could be very straight forward...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Quick, easy, enlightenment; Just axe for it.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dale Shipp on Saturday, April 06, 2019 12:52:21
    Hello Dale,

    On 06.04.19, you wrote to August Abolins:

    But then... I discovered SemPoint (Windows). It could consolidate all
    the QWK packet messages into an accumulating database.

    I seem to recall some software that would combine multiple QWK packets into one -- but it never interested me.


    Man... you do *not* know what you are missing! You would never have the burden

    of "researching" anything .QWK by .QWK ever again.


    ../|ug

    --- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
    * Origin: Reluctantly Revisiting Fidonet (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Ward Dossche on Saturday, April 06, 2019 22:10:43
    In a post between "Ward Dossche : August Abolins", on 4/6/2019 2:50 AM

    Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
    No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.

    Just telling you that this point operates on an Android tablet which
    moves with me worldwide, and those that know me know that I do get
    around. Not a fixed location by any definition in the book.

    Hello Ward! (er,Captain?)

    I meant that the "concept" or idea of points and nodes was originally
    based on the notion that our pcs have a consistent location. See the
    nodelist. The numbering system is restricted by the geo-specific
    location of a "system".

    But now, a few years later we have "devices" that can move with us. My
    reading system is a laptop (and was an iPod briefly). I've been
    intrigued with the concept of operating a mini-linux on a thumbdrive
    just for the purposes of fidonet.

    Right now I'm on the Northsea on a sailyacht, enjoying..

    Sounds like you are having a glorious time. Any icebergs?


    Very mobile ... And the point system can also run from my phone without tablet.

    Yes, yes... I am well aware of that and appreciate the mobile nature
    that a source system can have.


    Weren't you one of those harping about me rejecting change?

    I believe that was someone else! lol That was regarding different matters. ;) I am sorry to hear that you perceived that as harping.

    I am all *for* the notion of change, adaptation to new tech and
    improvements.

    Sail on!
    .../|ug

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 07, 2019 00:18:37
    I meant that the "concept" or idea of points and nodes was originally based on the notion that our pcs have a consistent location. See the nodelist. The numbering system is restricted by the geo-specific
    location of a "system".

    I have been convinced for years that end of the PC is nearing and we'll be accessing as well as running Fido via portable devices?

    A voice-activated editor would be nice.

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 07, 2019 03:05:40
    In a post between "mark lewis : Dale Shipp", on 4/6/2019 12:41 PM

    And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use
    it. I am fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.

    i understand that... my thinking was that the specs are available as is
    the source code to maximus... my quick look over the QWKE specs seemed
    to indicate that it is as easy an addition to make as they say it is... adding it to maximus could be very straight forward...

    Doesn't the MultiMail OLR support squish and QWKE?

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 07, 2019 08:48:00
    On 04-05-19 20:15, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    If an IMAP-like solution could work with fidonet, what's the problem
    with being "tied to the network"? I guess I don't catch your meaning.

    That means that the front end you're using is interacting with the back end messagebase over the network (Internet usually) in real time. This has 2 implications for me:

    1. It adds lots of minute delays (fractions of a second to seconds) between each message which really slow down message reading. It's much faster to access a cached copy locally. QWK works so well for me, because I'm readong from a local message store. Those little delays add up dramatically when flipping through hundreds of messages. Many web forums are even worse, with post (or thread) loading delays as long as tens of seconds.

    2. For mobile use, the assumption that the network is always available is certainly not true, once you head out of town here and off the major highways. A good messaging interface should be able to cope with connectivity as intermittent as "wifi hopping" (again, QWK is ideally suited here), or connectivity that randomly comes and goes as one moves between cells (QWK doesn't always handle this situation as well - dropouts during transfers are always an issue).


    The modern reality is we are highly mobile nowadays, and some of us do swap devices fery frequently, depending on needs at the time.

    Maybe a mock demo would help describe your vision.

    Who's going to write that? I'm not a coder. :( But yes, a demo would be good.


    ... When in doubt, predict that the trend will continue.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 07, 2019 08:50:00
    On 04-05-19 20:21, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-


    Isn't that akin to having a 12 cylinder engine in a sub-compact car?


    Well, I ended up towing a trailer with mine - had GIGO hanging off it as a Usenet/email gateway. :D For technical (support) reasons, it was a better location than the BBS itself.


    ... Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 07, 2019 08:54:00
    On 04-05-19 20:30, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Echomail was the main focus of my system. I added some Usenet and mailing lists later via GIGO on my point system.

    Oh my.. that brings back a memory. I believe I used that too. I had a Waffle gateway to the usenet/internet.

    Cool. :) I originally ran GIGO and UUPC on DOS, but later, went SMTP/NNTP under OS/2.

    Precisely. The whole automated proces is what sold me to the idea of enjoying messages. I hated tying up a phone line while navigating a
    BBS manually. But, I loved the bidirectional Zmodem with chat. That
    was too cool back in the day.

    For me, BBS navigation overheads for QWK/Bluewave were insignificant. Once I have a BBSs menu system in my head, and if it uses hotkeys, I just send the hotkeys blindly, as soon as the screen starts to draw. Time from login to initiating packet download was typically under 30 seconds, and most boards had a hangup after transfer option too. :)

    The point was even earier, of course, and it was a good aggregator - I did have at least one other feed that didn't go via the main BBS.


    ... You tell 'em Bean, He's stringing you.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 07, 2019 08:54:00
    On 04-05-19 20:36, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    The graphics were much better than the ansi offerings in standard bbses
    at the time. Mouseble too.

    The concept was brilliant, IMHO.

    Yes, if only it had caught on a few years earlier. :)


    ... Because that's what the holidays are all about: SUFFERING.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Dale Shipp on Sunday, April 07, 2019 08:57:00
    On 04-06-19 02:30, Dale Shipp wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I am well aware of both of your statements. My point is that what
    works for one person does not universally work for all.

    On that I agree totally. I was making the same point, but deliberately in a space poorly handled by BBSs up until now. But there's already options that work well for those who used desktop or laptop PCs as their primary or even only messaging device - Can anyone say "point system? For me, that's a no brainer :) ). But nothing really well suited to people who have multiple devices, some PCs, some mobile.


    ... Nothing like a bribe to get things rolling.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, April 07, 2019 16:55:00
    On 04-06-19 08:50, Ward Dossche wrote to August Abolins <=-

    Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
    No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.

    Just telling you that this point operates on an Android tablet which
    moves with me worldwide, and those that know me know that I do get
    around. Not a fixed location by any definition in the book.

    The issue I have with that is I don't want my primary point (pardon the pun) of access to be a mobile device. Mobile devices are the handy things that allow me to use services when I'm not on a more fully featured system. So I'm one of those annoying "device hoppers" who is currently not well served by BBS/FTN technology.

    My best compromise so far is to use QWK, and use a netbook for travelling. I also have a DOSBox based QWK reader for those "I really have to look NOW" moments when I only have a phone (and hopefully reading glasses lol) on me. :)


    ... Itisdifficulttobeverycreativewithonlyfiftysevencharacters
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to Tony Langdon on Sunday, April 07, 2019 11:02:32
    The concept was brilliant, IMHO.

    Yes, if only it had caught on a few years earlier. :)

    My mother always used to say "if our cat were a cow the milkman didn't need to stop".

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to Tony Langdon on Sunday, April 07, 2019 11:08:03
    Just telling you that this point operates on an Android tablet which
    moves with me worldwide, and those that know me know that I do get
    around. Not a fixed location by any definition in the book.

    Hey, I just nearly got hung from the highest tree by a know-it-all loudmouther for rejecting change as he saw the situation. 8-)

    The issue I have with that is ...

    The best compromise so far is to use QWK, and use a netbook for
    travelling.

    I run a Samsung tablet with Aftershock under Android. Works really well.

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Kurt Weiske on Sunday, April 07, 2019 03:46:25
    In a post between "Kurt Weiske : August Abolins", on 4/6/2019 11:45 AM

    Ah.. but the "art" of operating a point proggie like OpenXP can be
    quite an experience. <g>

    I just googled it, looks interesting. Maybe I'll set up a point on my
    linux laptop just for kicks...

    OpenXP operates/looks like a console. It has nice full dropdowns, a context-sensitive F1 help. Not bad, really. The keyboard response is fast and

    snappy (no delayed animations). But be warned: there's a screaming banshee lurking in the midst of it.

    The editor might trip you up a bit. Example:

    [o] how do you delete a block of text?

    Windows version:
    Hold down the <Shift> key, then mark the block of text by using the <Down-arrow> key. Press <Ctrl+K>Y to delete the block.

    Linux version:
    Position the cursor in the first column *above* the block you wish to
    delete and press <F7>. Position the cursor in the first column *below*
    the block you wish to delete and press <F8>. Press <Ctrl+K>Y to delete
    the block.

    Hop on over to the POINTS echo and read about my journey with the oxp editor.

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, April 07, 2019 19:45:16
    On 06/04/2019 6:18 p.m., Ward Dossche : August Abolins wrote:

    A voice-activated editor would be nice.

    Progs to "type" while dictating have already been out for many years. You just have to buy them.


    .../|ug

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tony Langdon on Sunday, April 07, 2019 19:53:16
    On 06/04/2019 6:54 p.m., Tony Langdon : August Abolins wrote:

    RE: SHOTGON w/RIP

    The graphics were much better than the ansi offerings in
    standard bbses at the time. Mouseble too.

    The concept was brilliant, IMHO. >


    Yes, if only it had caught on a few years earlier. :)

    The problem was that everything else outside of Shotgun/RIP was moving too fast

    forward. Along came the "browser" for internet.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 07, 2019 13:08:50

    On 2019 Apr 07 19:45:16, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    A voice-activated editor would be nice.

    Progs to "type" while dictating have already been out for many years. You just have to buy them.

    Siri, Google and Alexa can already do this... they just need to be interfaced with the editor and reader somehow...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignor
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tony Langdon on Sunday, April 07, 2019 20:10:09
    On 06/04/2019 6:57 p.m., Tony Langdon : Dale Shipp wrote:

    .. But there's already options that work well for those who used
    desktop or laptop PCs as their primary or even only messaging device
    - Can anyone say "point system? For me, that's a no brainer :) ).
    But nothing really well suited to people who have multiple devices,
    some PCs, some mobile.

    The closest thing that works for me is using the nntp approach. I can work with

    messages at either my desktop or laptop. Most of the time those machines are never in the same location.

    But the method lacks the ability to:

    [1] save a reply-in-progress at one device, and resume with it at another device before actually sending it off.

    [2] mark/tag messages for reply at one device, and see the same mark/tag at another device.

    Is that the ability you wanted?

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 07, 2019 14:02:38

    On 2019 Apr 07 20:10:08, you wrote to Tony Langdon:

    The closest thing that works for me is using the nntp approach. I can
    work with messages at either my desktop or laptop. Most of the time
    those machines are never in the same location.

    But the method lacks the ability to:

    you forget about the lastread pointers... news clients keep up with the lastread pointers themselves... not the BBS or news server... so you have to manually sync the lastread pointers on each device...

    [1] save a reply-in-progress at one device, and resume with it at
    another device before actually sending it off.

    you can get this if the BBS offers the ability to save drafts... at least one BBS that i know of does this now if the connection is lost while writing a message... it only offers one draft, though, and you have to continue it immediately when you reconnect...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... How lovely (he said, lying through his teeth).
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 07, 2019 21:13:02
    On 07/04/2019 1:08 p.m., mark lewis : August Abolins wrote:

     On 2019 Apr 07 19:45:16, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    ; A voice-activated editor would be nice.

    Progs to "type" while dictating have already been out for many
    years. You just have to buy them.

    Siri, Google and Alexa can already do this... they just need to be
    interfaced with the editor and reader somehow...

    Apparently, the "free" Cortana offering in Win10 can do that too:

    [1] Microsoft's Dictate uses Cortana's speech recognition to enable dictation in Office. ... Dictate, meanwhile, only works in Office. However, it offers support for a number of commands, like “new line,” “stop dictation,” and “enter,” as well as other punctuation marks and actions. Jun 20, 2017

    [2] Similar to how you can use voice commands for Kopy to initiate a voice session, you can use Cortana together with OneNote to dictate hands-free. ... .Jun 16, 2014

    [3] Cortana has a new feature: Reciting your email Microsoft's Cortana digital assistant can now search, read back, and respond to email. ... Microsoft has given Cortana the ability to read emails aloud and take dictation for responses, making it the second digital assistant to integrate those features by default. Mar 9, 2018

    [4] Use dictation to talk instead of type on your PC. Use dictation to convert spoken words into text anywhere on your PC with Windows 10. To start dictating,

    select a text field and press the Windows logo key + H to open the dictation toolbar. Then say whatever's on your mind. Nov 7, 2018

    Maybe anyone who has access to the various tools above can try things out and report back.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 07, 2019 22:42:30
    On 07/04/2019 2:02 p.m., mark lewis : August Abolins wrote:

    you forget about the lastread pointers... news clients keep up with the lastread pointers themselves... not the BBS or news server...
    Ya.. the lastread pointer issue! For now, the volume of mail (in fidonet) is not too much of a bother to keep up with or see previously read messages. But I can certainly appreciate the matter.

    I found the following discussion about this problem:

    -= 8< =-
    Before the update to feedly 16 everything was perfectly in sync: When I read everything new in Firefox I could open feedly on my Android device and got the "you read everything ..." message - perfect! When there were new feeds and I read them on Android I did not get them as unread on Firefox later.

    However, since the update to feedly 16 this changed. Now stuff I read in Firefox does not show up as already-read on Android and vice versa. That's super annoying and actually this kind of syncing is the reason I started using feedly in the first place - when reading feeds at home, at work and from mobile

    it's very important to keep read items in sync. Especially with high-volume feeds such as 9gag.

    1,846 votes
    ThiefMaster shared this idea · Jun 17, 2013
    -= 8< =-

    Since 2013, it looks like the "problem" at feedly has been solved.


    so you have to manually sync the lastread pointers on each device...
    How do you do the manual syncing with Thunderbird nntp areas? Auto-syncing works with email/IMAP across clients, but the only thing marked "sync" for nntp

    is "Download" messages. :( ..and that ain't gonna help when I want to resume reading with another client for the account/server.


     AA> [1] save a reply-in-progress at one device, and resume with it at
     AA> another device before actually sending it off.

    you can get this if the BBS offers the ability to save drafts... at
    least one BBS that i know of does this now if the connection is lost
    while writing a message... it only offers one draft, though, and you
    have to continue it immediately when you reconnect...

    I remember seeing that at a few BBSes, in the past.
    Worked great over the tender dialup.

    I wonder if this might work:

    Client #1 (laptop)
    - connect to server
    - fetch new messages
    - disconnect
    - read, create replies or save drafts for later resume
    - reconnect to server, BUT, only send sync:data "update LOCALLY READ markers and draft status" on messages in progress.
    - disconnect.

    Client #2 (tablet)
    - connect to server
    - request "sync:data" from session with #1 above.
    - fetch messages from where you left off from #1 above, BUT INCLUDE any UNREAD

    messages that have not been confirmed with sync:data above (this is the key, unlike QWK, for example).
    - disconnect
    - resume read/write.
    - reconnect, send sync:data
    - disconnect

    Client #1 (laptop)
    - connect to server
    - request "sync:data" from session with #2 above.
    - fetch messages from where you left off from #2 above.
    - disconnect

    ...and so on.

    .../|ug

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 07, 2019 21:47:53

    A voice-activated editor would be nice.

    Progs to "type" while dictating have already been out for many years. You just have to buy them.

    Do you have ancestors in the Netherlands ?

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 07, 2019 09:01:00
    August Abolins wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    The editor might trip you up a bit. Example:

    [o] how do you delete a block of text?

    Windows version:
    Hold down the <Shift> key, then mark the block of text by using the <Down-arrow> key. Press <Ctrl+K>Y to delete the block.

    Sounds like a mashup between the old MS-DOS editor and Wordstar key
    bindings.

    I've been using ^K commands since 1993 or so - I still use Qedit with
    my QWK reader. Those key bindings probably seem alien now.

    Hop on over to the POINTS echo and read about my journey with the oxp editor.

    I'll check it out.


    ... Do you ever see inconsistencies in your world?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tony Langdon on Monday, April 08, 2019 00:46:42
    In a post between "Tony Langdon : August Abolins", on 4/6/2019 6:54 PM

    For me, BBS navigation overheads for QWK/Bluewave were insignificant.
    Once I have a BBSs menu system in my head, and if it uses hotkeys, I
    just send the hotkeys blindly, as soon as the screen starts to draw.
    Time from login to initiating packet download was typically under 30
    seconds, and most boards had a hangup after transfer option too. :)

    Yes.. I used QWK method for quite a while (at first) too. It was a wonderful solution. Later, I added a Robocaller (I forget the official name) that would walk through the BBS's menus automatically with the hotkeys. If a sysop didn't

    change a particular menu order or the key, it worked great!

    Back to your current situation, why not carry a point/qwk setup on a thumbdrive

    or memory card and plug that in to the different PCs you use?

    Not sure how that would work on a smartphone device, but it probably doesn't matter since you would only use that for a quick check, and not to write back.

    ?

    .../|ug

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, April 07, 2019 17:40:00
    On 04-06-19 13:20, Ward Dossche <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: qwk and/or points <=-


    Not so true. The point can only keep so much of the message base before it overflows.

    I can run a point under D'Bridge, have done so in the past,
    and run full message bases without overflow.

    All messages for the past 20 years or so?

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 17:41:27, 07 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Mark Lewis on Sunday, April 07, 2019 17:42:02
    On 04-06-19 12:41, Mark Lewis <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-

    And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use it. I
    am fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.

    i understand that... my thinking was that the specs are available as
    is the source code to maximus... my quick look over the QWKE specs seemed to indicate that it is as easy an addition to make
    as they say it is... adding it to maximus could be very
    straight forward...

    But has anyone done that? If so, I'd like to know.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 17:43:41, 07 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dale Shipp on Sunday, April 07, 2019 22:28:08

    On 2019 Apr 07 17:42:02, you wrote to me:

    And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use it. I
    am fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.

    i understand that... my thinking was that the specs are available as
    is the source code to maximus... my quick look over the QWKE specs
    seemed to indicate that it is as easy an addition to make as they say
    it is... adding it to maximus could be very straight forward...

    But has anyone done that? If so, I'd like to know.

    i don't know... it is why i kinda pointed it out to you... my thinking was with

    your past experience with QWK and repairing the y2k flaw you might be able to add it yourself... but i don't know your programming capabilities... i know mine are waning and i keep having to dig into newer languages for so many things today...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... How shaky is your fragile little sense of the world?
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Ward Dossche on Monday, April 08, 2019 12:05:00
    On 04-07-19 11:02, Ward Dossche wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    My mother always used to say "if our cat were a cow the milkman didn't need to stop".

    Haha that's another way of putting it. :)


    ... Swimming: the worse you are at it, the more exercise you get.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Ward Dossche on Monday, April 08, 2019 12:07:00
    On 04-07-19 11:08, Ward Dossche wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Just telling you that this point operates on an Android tablet which
    moves with me worldwide, and those that know me know that I do get
    around. Not a fixed location by any definition in the book.

    Hey, I just nearly got hung from the highest tree by a know-it-all loudmouther for rejecting change as he saw the situation. 8-)

    You can't win. :D

    The issue I have with that is ...

    The best compromise so far is to use QWK, and use a netbook for
    travelling.

    I run a Samsung tablet with Aftershock under Android. Works really
    well.

    I don't doubt that, but what about synchronisation between that and any other devices (Pcs, etc?) Or is the tablet the only device you read your mail on?

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)

    I'm guessing the latter, in which case, Aftershock is a good solution, but I don't want to be tied to a tablet as my only/primary FTN device, I want more flexibility than that.


    ... A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it!!!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Monday, April 08, 2019 12:08:00
    On 04-07-19 19:53, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    The problem was that everything else outside of Shotgun/RIP was moving
    too fast forward. Along came the "browser" for internet.

    It would have needed to have caught on before the WWW did. ;)


    ... LSD: Virtual Reality without all the fancy hardware
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Monday, April 08, 2019 12:11:00
    On 04-07-19 20:10, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    The closest thing that works for me is using the nntp approach. I can
    work with messages at either my desktop or laptop. Most of the time
    those machines are never in the same location.

    Prblem with NNTP is that all of its subscription and last read information is kept on the client side, so moving between devices becomes problematic.

    But the method lacks the ability to:

    [1] save a reply-in-progress at one device, and resume with it at
    another device before actually sending it off.

    I can live without that, it's a capability I'd rarely need (VNC can allow this when push comes to shove). :)

    [2] mark/tag messages for reply at one device, and see the same
    mark/tag at another device.

    That would be useful, but the bigger issue for me is that what's read on one device doesn't show up as read on the next.


    ... SHIN: A device for finding furniture in the dark!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Monday, April 08, 2019 12:16:00
    On 04-08-19 00:46, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Yes.. I used QWK method for quite a while (at first) too. It was a wonderful solution. Later, I added a Robocaller (I forget the official name) that would walk through the BBS's menus automatically with the hotkeys. If a sysop didn't change a particular menu order or the key,
    it worked great!

    These days (under Linux) it's even easier:

    wget ftp://username:password@my.bbs.com/BBSID.qwk

    Assuming your BBS runs Synchronet, Mystic or another package that supports QWK over FTP.

    Back to your current situation, why not carry a point/qwk setup on a thumbdrive or memory card and plug that in to the different PCs you
    use?

    It would have to be platform independent, I also run different OSs. On Windows now, netbook runs Linux (Lubuntu)

    Not sure how that would work on a smartphone device, but it probably doesn't matter since you would only use that for a quick check, and not
    to write back. ?

    I would like to be able to have a decent mail session on a smartphone as well, but with a suitable mobile aware GUI interface, rather than trying to fit fixed text mode onto a tiny screen.


    ... Old age is life's parody.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dale Shipp on Monday, April 08, 2019 09:18:11
    I can run a point under D'Bridge, have done so in the past,
    and run full message bases without overflow.

    All messages for the past 20 years or so?

    Of course.

    There's not much of a difference running between 2:292/854 or 2:292/854.33 under D'Bridge ... and I guess many other node-setups being run as a point.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Tony Langdon on Monday, April 08, 2019 14:36:23

    I run a Samsung tablet with Aftershock under Android. Works really TL>WD> well.

    I don't doubt that, but what about synchronisation between that and any other devices (Pcs, etc?) Or is the tablet the only device you read your mail on?

    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)

    It's a point, and points have no need to synchronize, they're totally stand-alone ... even on a tablet.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 08:13:00
    On 04-08-19 14:36, Ward Dossche wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I run a Samsung tablet with Aftershock under Android. Works really
    well.

    I don't doubt that, but what about synchronisation between that and any other devices (Pcs, etc?) Or is the tablet the only device you read your mail on?

    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)

    It's a point, and points have no need to synchronize, they're totally stand-alone ... even on a tablet.

    Again, you totally miss my point. I DON'T want to be forced to use a tablet or some other mobile device for all BBS mail. In fact, you've reinforced why a point is NOT suitable for my mobile use.


    ... Uncertainty: Finding your wife reading your Will.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tony Langdon on Monday, April 08, 2019 19:35:00
    Hello Tony!

    ** 08.04.19 - 12:16, Tony Langdon wrote to August Abolins:

    Yes.. I used QWK method for quite a while (at first) too. It was a
    wonderful solution. Later, I added a Robocaller..

    These days (under Linux) it's even easier:

    wget ftp://username:password@my.bbs.com/BBSID.qwk


    That's beautiful. I was not aware of this. But unlike going manually to
    the BBS, where the qwk file is created dynamically on the spot, with wget
    you only get the qwk that has been pre-packed by the server ahead of time?


    Back to your current situation, why not carry a point/qwk setup on a
    thumbdrive or memory card and plug that in to the different PCs you
    use?

    It would have to be platform independent, I also run different OSs. On Windows now, netbook runs Linux (Lubuntu)

    Your Multimail is multi-platform, no? So, you *could* have full installations on each of your devices, and use QWK with the thumbdrive(?)


    Not sure how that would work on a smartphone device, but it probably
    doesn't matter since you would only use that for a quick check, and not AA>> to write back. ?

    I would like to be able to have a decent mail session on a smartphone as well, but with a suitable mobile aware GUI interface, rather than trying
    to fit fixed text mode onto a tiny screen.

    I assume you've tried the Aftershock and Hotdoged offerings, and they
    don't quite fit the bill.


    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.37
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tony Langdon on Monday, April 08, 2019 19:43:00
    Hello Tony!

    ** 08.04.19 - 12:11, Tony Langdon wrote to August Abolins:

    The closest thing that works for me is using the nntp approach..

    Prblem with NNTP is that all of its subscription and last read information is kept on the client side, so moving between devices becomes problematic.

    Exactly. That's where the future in FUTURE4FIDO comes in. <g>

    Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange during the process, then it wouldn't matter on which device you're querying the
    server. BUT, you would have to keep a copy of the sync-packet with you
    or somewhere in the cloud.(?)


    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.37
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tony Langdon on Monday, April 08, 2019 19:54:00
    Hello Tony!

    ** 08.04.19 - 12:08, Tony Langdon wrote to August Abolins:

    The problem was that everything else outside of Shotgun/RIP was
    moving too fast forward. Along came the "browser" for internet.

    It would have needed to have caught on before the WWW did. ;)


    Mosaic, Netscape, ShotGun.. all emerged in the mid 90's.

    Shotgun had a pretty good chance, but the target audience was just BBS
    users.

    The browser solution with Mosaic, Netscape targetted people who wanted to explore the web.


    Regards,
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.37
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 10:09:00
    On 04-08-19 19:35, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    That's beautiful. I was not aware of this. But unlike going manually
    to the BBS, where the qwk file is created dynamically on the spot, with wget you only get the qwk that has been pre-packed by the server ahead
    of time?

    No, it's actually built on the spot. The act of initiating a download of that filename will cause the packet to be built, before it's sent via FTP.

    Your Multimail is multi-platform, no? So, you *could* have full installations on each of your devices, and use QWK with the
    thumbdrive(?)

    You did say "point" not "QWK" - different beast. :)

    I assume you've tried the Aftershock and Hotdoged offerings, and they don't quite fit the bill.

    How many times do I have to say a POINT DOES NOT FIT!!! (mentioned that at least half a dozen times in the past week alone ;) ). Because it's an independent system, and is not synchronised with the BBS. QWK, OTOH uses the same last read pointers and area subscriptions, regardless of what device you read the packets on, since they're stored on the BBS.


    ... On a clear disk you can seek forever.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 10:12:00
    On 04-08-19 19:43, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Exactly. That's where the future in FUTURE4FIDO comes in. <g>

    Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange during
    the process, then it wouldn't matter on which device you're querying
    the server. BUT, you would have to keep a copy of the sync-packet
    with you or somewhere in the cloud.(?)

    Would be nice if there was some way of storing that information on the BBS and transferring it during initial NNTP connection. But the NNTP reader would have to support downloading and transferring the BBS configuration and state into the newsreader. In other words, I can see this requiring the cooperation of all newsreader vendors, something I don't see as practical for a niche application. Nice thought though.


    ... Mental Floss prevents Moral Decay.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 10:13:00
    On 04-08-19 19:54, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Mosaic, Netscape, ShotGun.. all emerged in the mid 90's.

    Shotgun had a pretty good chance, but the target audience was just BBS users.

    The browser solution with Mosaic, Netscape targetted people who wanted
    to explore the web.

    Exactly. Had shotgun had a few years jump on Mosaic, we might have had a lot of BBS users already on GUI, by the time the web came around, and BBSs might have made more inroads where web forums are today.


    ... IBM = Institute of Black Magic
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tony Langdon on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 04:47:41
    In a post between "Tony Langdon : August Abolins", on 4/8/2019 8:09 PM

    How many times do I have to say a POINT DOES NOT FIT!!!..

    Except for the cross-platform matter, carry your point system with you like you

    carry your qwk files?

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tony Langdon on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 04:54:38
    In a post between "Tony Langdon : August Abolins", on 4/8/2019 8:12 PM

    Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange during the process..

    Would be nice if there was some way of storing that information on
    the BBS and transferring it during initial NNTP connection. But the
    NNTP reader would have to support downloading and transferring the
    BBS configuration and state into the newsreader. In other words, I
    can see this requiring the cooperation of all newsreader vendors,
    something I don't see as practical for a niche application. Nice
    thought though.

    Readers such as Thunderbird allow Add-ons. For example, I use a special Add-on

    that builds the header "In a post between.." at the top. I can customize that at will.

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 12:10:00
    On 04-09-19 04:47, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    In a post between "Tony Langdon : August Abolins", on 4/8/2019 8:09 PM

    How many times do I have to say a POINT DOES NOT FIT!!!..

    Except for the cross-platform matter, carry your point system with you like you carry your qwk files?

    As I said, has to be cross platform - Windows, Linux and Android. :)


    ... I didn't climb to the top of the food chain just to eat vegetables.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 12:13:00
    On 04-09-19 04:54, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Readers such as Thunderbird allow Add-ons. For example, I use a
    special Add-on that builds the header "In a post between.." at the top.
    I can customize that at will.

    That's one among dozens. And are there equivalent features for mobile newsreaders? Especially offline ones? I did find offline NNTP was good for travelling, except for the client side subscription/last read pointer issue. :/
    An offline Android NNTP reader than can get that information from the BBS would actually be soffiecient. :)


    ... Easter is cancelled this year. They've found the body.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Mark Lewis on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 00:59:02
    On 04-07-19 22:28, Mark Lewis <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-

    And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use it. I
    am fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.

    i understand that... my thinking was that the specs are available as
    is the source code to maximus... my quick look over the QWKE specs
    seemed to indicate that it is as easy an addition to make as they say
    it is... adding it to maximus could be very straight forward...

    But has anyone done that? If so, I'd like to know.

    i don't know... it is why i kinda pointed it out to you...
    my thinking was with your past experience with QWK and
    repairing the y2k flaw you might be able to add it
    yourself...

    I did that out of absolute necessity -- but I would not call it
    programming in any real sense. What I did was to dig into the format
    and figure out how to correct it using what was essentially a batch file band-aid. It was later on that someone else (RB) dug into the code of
    BlueWave and figured out how to patch it in a real way there. His was a
    much more elegant and simple solution.

    but i don't know your programming capabilities...

    Less now than they were a quarter century ago.

    i know mine are waning and i keep having to
    dig into newer languages for so many things today...

    My facility and knowledge with computer languages was always much better
    than it ever was with human languages. Over the course of my career, I
    think that I was fluent in perhaps a half dozen or more computer
    languages, some of which were only known in limited circles. I have
    only heard the names of many such that have popped up over the past two
    decades since I retired.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)



    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:06:55, 09 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to August Abolins on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 12:35:20

    On 2019 Apr 08 19:35:00, you wrote to Tony Langdon:

    These days (under Linux) it's even easier:

    wget ftp://username:password@my.bbs.com/BBSID.qwk

    That's beautiful. I was not aware of this. But unlike going manually
    to the BBS, where the qwk file is created dynamically on the spot,
    with wget you only get the qwk that has been pre-packed by the server ahead of time?

    not on systems specifically written to handle the above... synchronet generates

    the new QWK for your user because the FTP script code specifically does that...

    I would like to be able to have a decent mail session on a smartphone
    as well, but with a suitable mobile aware GUI interface, rather than
    trying to fit fixed text mode onto a tiny screen.

    I assume you've tried the Aftershock and Hotdoged offerings, and they don't quite fit the bill.

    they're still individual installations and don't share their data with other devices...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Dang, I hate being derivative.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to August Abolins on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 12:37:38

    On 2019 Apr 08 19:43:00, you wrote to Tony Langdon:

    The closest thing that works for me is using the nntp approach..

    Prblem with NNTP is that all of its subscription and last read
    information is kept on the client side, so moving between devices
    becomes problematic.

    Exactly. That's where the future in FUTURE4FIDO comes in. <g>

    not only for FTNs with your suggestion below...

    Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange during
    the process, then it wouldn't matter on which device you're querying
    the server. BUT, you would have to keep a copy of the sync-packet
    with you or somewhere in the cloud.(?)

    no news client does this so a custom news client would have to be written and used... no more using t-bird or similar...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... If it's got jelly beans in it, it definitely ain't chili!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to mark lewis on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 20:47:02
    On 09/04/2019 12:37 p.m., mark lewis : August Abolins wrote:

     AA> Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange during
     AA> the process, then it wouldn't matter on which device you're querying
     AA> the server.   BUT, you would have to keep a copy of the sync-packet
     AA> with you or somewhere in the cloud.(?)

    no news client does this so a custom news client would have to be
    written and used... no more using t-bird or similar...

    A t-bird Add-On that is programmable/configurable for specific servers wouldn't

    work?

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to August Abolins on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 16:31:24

    On 2019 Apr 09 20:47:02, you wrote to me:

    On 09/04/2019 12:37 p.m., mark lewis : August Abolins wrote:

     AA> Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange
    during
     AA> the process, then it wouldn't matter on which device you're
    querying
     AA> the server.   BUT, you would have to keep a copy of the
    sync-packet
     AA> with you or somewhere in the cloud.(?)

    no news client does this so a custom news client would have to be
    written and used... no more using t-bird or similar...

    A t-bird Add-On that is programmable/configurable for specific servers wouldn't work?

    i don't know... i refuse to use addons for t-bird and ff other than noscript and adblock... why should we have to add an addon in the first place? that's the problem... i just don't trust them...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... We gotta get out of this place, if it's the last thing we ever do.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to mark lewis on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 02:51:23
    In a post between "mark lewis : August Abolins", on 4/9/2019 4:31 PM

    ..a custom news client would have to be
    written and used... no more using t-bird or similar...

    A t-bird Add-On that is programmable/configurable for specific servers wouldn't work?

    i don't know... i refuse to use addons for t-bird and ff other than
    noscript and adblock... why should we have to add an addon in the first place? that's the problem... i just don't trust them...

    But addons are quite popular in fido: tic, nl update, freq, areafix, message processors, alternative message editors, etc. ;)

    .../|ug

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to mark lewis on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 16:59:00
    On 04-09-19 12:35, mark lewis wrote to August Abolins <=-

    I assume you've tried the Aftershock and Hotdoged offerings, and they don't quite fit the bill.

    they're still individual installations and don't share their data with other devices...

    I'm glad someone else can see what I'm saying. :)


    ... If everything seems to go right, check your zipper.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to August Abolins on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 04:25:46

    On 2019 Apr 10 02:51:22, you wrote to me:

    i don't know... i refuse to use addons for t-bird and ff other than
    noscript and adblock... why should we have to add an addon in the first
    place? that's the problem... i just don't trust them...

    But addons are quite popular in fido: tic, nl update, freq, areafix, message processors, alternative message editors, etc. ;)

    sorry but i don't see that as the same thing... those are externals and they stay external... they don't modify how GoldED or FM, for example, operate... addons to t-bird and ff inject themselves into those programs... a TIC processor certainly doesn't care about a BBS or a mailer... it only cares about

    a TIC file, the file it accompanies, and the destination directory...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... What if there were no hypothetical situations?
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dale Shipp on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 22:24:00
    Hello Dale!

    ** 04.04.19 - 00:46, Dale Shipp wrote to Nil Alexandrov:

    I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.

    Have you heard of this:


    DURQWK14.ZIP 1172K 09-09-1998

    DURANGOMAIL ver1.4 Build 204 - Updated 9/9/98 ---------------------------------------------
    QWKE Offline mail reader for Win 95/98/NT/2K
    * Multiple-Document Interface for reading
    several packets at once
    * Automatic quote highlighting
    * Two levels of configurable message sorting
    * Filing cabinet for quick storage/retrieval
    of messages
    * Fast and flexible message searching
    * Advanced message filtering options
    * Personal message alerts using a wave file
    * Offline-configuration for adding and
    dropping message areas
    * Area and message capacity is limited only
    by available system memory
    * Spell-checker & thesaurus
    * Simple setup and uninstal ...And More!


    Even if you don't have QWKE, this might still support QWK. But the main benefit would be to be able to manage multiple QWKs at once.

    I found a copy from archives.thebbs.org, but I had a little trouble
    getting the setup.exe to cooperate. "not a wn32 program" error. Bad archive? Maybe the archive is listed somewhere else to try?


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.38
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Thursday, April 25, 2019 17:35:00
    On 04-24-19 22:24, August Abolins wrote to Dale Shipp <=-

    Hello Dale!

    ** 04.04.19 - 00:46, Dale Shipp wrote to Nil Alexandrov:

    I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.

    Have you heard of this:


    DURQWK14.ZIP 1172K 09-09-1998

    Interesting.

    I found a copy from archives.thebbs.org, but I had a little trouble getting the setup.exe to cooperate. "not a wn32 program" error. Bad archive? Maybe the archive is listed somewhere else to try?

    I'd say the installer is 16 bit, if you're trying to install it on a Win64 system. There were 16 bit installers around in those days.


    ... See if you can guess which drink will make me love you.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to August Abolins on Friday, April 26, 2019 01:12:00
    On 04-24-19 22:24, August Abolins <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-
    I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.

    Have you heard of this:
    DURQWK14.ZIP 1172K 09-09-1998

    DURANGOMAIL ver1.4 Build 204 - Updated 9/9/98 ---------------------------------------------
    QWKE Offline mail reader for Win 95/98/NT/2K
    I have not heard of it.

    Even if you don't have QWKE, this might still support QWK. But the
    main benefit would be to be able to manage multiple QWKs at once.

    No real advantage to me. I'll stick with my Bluewave that I know well.

    I found a copy from archives.thebbs.org, but I had a little trouble getting the setup.exe to cooperate. "not a wn32 program" error. Bad archive? Maybe the archive is listed somewhere else to try?

    More likely, it is a 16 bit program. It would need WINXP or so to
    install.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)



    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:14:50, 26 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tony Langdon on Friday, April 26, 2019 22:46:00
    Hello Tony!

    ** 25.04.19 - 17:35, Tony Langdon wrote to August Abolins:

    DURQWK14.ZIP 1172K 09-09-1998

    Interesting.

    I found a copy from archives.thebbs.org, but I had a little trouble
    getting the setup.exe to cooperate. "not a wn32 program" error. Bad
    archive? Maybe the archive is listed somewhere else to try?

    I'd say the installer is 16 bit, if you're trying to install it on a Win64 system. There were 16 bit installers around in those days.


    It could be a combination of something else too. Meanwhile, I tried all
    the recommendations: running as admin, or trying another compatibility
    mode in my WinXP. No go.

    For some things fido, the future has stopped. :(



    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.38
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.59 to Dale Shipp on Saturday, April 27, 2019 00:29:32
    Hello Dale!

    On 4/26/2019, Dale Shipp wrote to August Abolins:

    I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK
    packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.

    Noted.

    Have you heard of this:
    DURQWK14.ZIP 1172K 09-09-1998
    DURANGOMAIL ver1.4 Build 204 - Updated 9/9/98
    ---------------------------------------------
    QWKE Offline mail reader for Win 95/98/NT/2K

    I have not heard of it.
    No real advantage to me. I'll stick with my Bluewave that I know
    well.

    Noted.

    But QWK's 25 char limit in the subject s cutting off my beautifully thought out

    subjects! LOL

    And yours seems to even cut them down further to about 20 chars. :(

    Your subject line for something like:
    FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17 Page: 7
    FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17 Page: 6
    FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17 Page: 5

    ..would look all the same in your lists:
    FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17

    I dunno how you can accept that! :/

    The "future" of longer subject line awaits you!

    .. I had a little trouble
    getting the setup.exe to cooperate. "not a wn32 program" error. Bad
    archive? Maybe the archive is listed somewhere else to try?

    More likely, it is a 16 bit program. It would need WINXP or so to
    install.

    Indeed. I was attempting to try in on my XP. No go. :( No "future" for 16bit.


    ../|ug

    --- APoint 1.25
    * Origin: ASCII stupid question, get stupid ANSI. (2:221/1.59)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Saturday, April 27, 2019 16:47:00
    On 04-26-19 22:46, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I'd say the installer is 16 bit, if you're trying to install it on a Win64 system. There were 16 bit installers around in those days.


    It could be a combination of something else too. Meanwhile, I tried
    all the recommendations: running as admin, or trying another
    compatibility mode in my WinXP. No go.

    Bummer, that's weird. Do you have a Win 9x VM you can fire up?

    For some things fido, the future has stopped. :(

    :(


    ... BATCH - A group, kinda like a herd.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.59 to Tony Langdon on Saturday, April 27, 2019 18:47:57
    Hello Tony,

    On 27.04.19, you wrote to August Abolins:

    It could be a combination of something else too. Meanwhile, I tried all
    the recommendations: running as admin, or trying another compatibility
    mode in my WinXP. No go.

    Bummer, that's weird. Do you have a Win 9x VM you can fire up?

    WinXP has W95 compatibility built in. I can't bother if I have to go dance around outside what WinXP can do. I suspect that the Durango .exe is corrupted. Meanwhile, SemPoint 2.26 is 16bit and has no problems on my XP at all.

    There can be a future for *some* 16bit progs for a little while longer. ;)



    ../|ug

    --- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
    * Origin: Reluctantly Revisiting Fidonet (2:221/1.59)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 28, 2019 01:34:00
    On 04-27-19 00:29, August Abolins <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about qwk 25 char subj line lim <=-


    Hello Dale!

    On 4/26/2019, Dale Shipp wrote to August Abolins:

    I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK
    packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.

    Noted.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it:-}}

    But QWK's 25 char limit in the subject s cutting off my
    beautifully thought out subjects! LOL

    In today's fido, not a lot of attention is paid to subject lines anyhow.
    They last forever, no matter what the subject is. Plus, in tonight's
    QWK packet for this echo, every subject line except yours was well under
    25 characters. I.e. most people are not bothered by the limitation.

    And yours seems to even cut them down further to about 20 chars. :(

    I don't think so.

    Your subject line for something like:
    FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17 Page: 7
    FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17 Page: 6
    FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17 Page: 5

    ..would look all the same in your lists:
    FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17

    True.

    I dunno how you can accept that! :/

    I do not have a lot of choice. It is just one of those things that QWK
    users have to bear.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:10:25, 28 Apr 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Sunday, April 28, 2019 15:42:00
    On 04-27-19 18:47, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Bummer, that's weird. Do you have a Win 9x VM you can fire up?

    WinXP has W95 compatibility built in. I can't bother if I have to go dance around outside what WinXP can do. I suspect that the Durango
    .exe is corrupted. Meanwhile, SemPoint 2.26 is 16bit and has no
    problems on my XP at all.

    Some Win9x software used VxD's, which can't be used in an XP (or other NT kernel) environment. So it depends how the program is setup. But in this instance, corruption of the .exe could be the culprit.

    There can be a future for *some* 16bit progs for a little while longer.
    ;)

    True. :)


    ... My day's ruined when I put my left sock on my right foot.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dale Shipp on Sunday, April 28, 2019 12:34:00
    Hello Dale!

    ** 28.04.19 - 01:34, Dale Shipp wrote to August Abolins:

    I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK
    packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.

    Noted.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it:-}}

    Absolutely! You work with what you are comfortable with. Excellent.


    But QWK's 25 char limit in the subject s cutting off my
    beautifully thought out subjects! LOL

    In today's fido, not a lot of attention is paid to subject lines anyhow. They last forever, no matter what the subject is. Plus, in tonight's
    QWK packet for this echo, every subject line except yours was well under
    25 characters. I.e. most people are not bothered by the limitation.

    Well, I guess I fall into the lessor group of your study. I skip messages that bear a subject that has proven to be "off" topic. I don't know if
    you read newsgroups, but the subject is a key factor there, primariily due
    to the high volume in many cases. Fidonet echos are extremely low volume,
    so *any* message seems a welcome read in many cases than having nothing.


    I dunno how you can accept that! :/

    I do not have a lot of choice. It is just one of those things that QWK users have to bear.

    QWK is a very clever invention. QWKE is even lil'bit better! The
    "future" awaits. Albiet, it is still kinda like "back to the future" in
    this case. LOL





    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.38
    * Origin: /|ug's Point, ONT, CANADA (2:221/1.58)